Need opinions on beginning farmer.
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Topic: Need opinions on beginning farmer.
Posted By: smallfarmer83
Subject: Need opinions on beginning farmer.
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:30pm
| Here is my situation. I'm gonna appoligise for the long post ahead of time. My wife's grandpa owns nearly 500 acres. He retired from farming in 02. He currently rents the ground to local farmer. The contract is up in 2 years. I've talked to him about getting back into farming and I have a little over 100 K to put into the operation, and trying to have more when the time comes. Ive already talked to a few different banks about a operating loan and a coupled different ins agents lined up too. Im 29 and have been around farming all my life and just want to invest what money i have so fare wisely. The problem is he had an auction and sold all his Eqpt. What would y'all suggest to farm 500 acres on a corn soybean rotation. Would you go no-till or conventional till. A little about the farm. I will have access to a 60X80 pole barn and 40K bushell storage between 4 bins with dryers. All the farm is with 6 miles of itself. The farm does have the potential to grow over 200 bushell corn on the right year. Again sorry for the long post just trying to get myself in the right spot over the next couple yrs. TIA. |
Replies:
Posted By: ACscott
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:42pm
| Find a good case ih 1660 or 1680 good combines and room to expand. |
Posted By: XT in pa
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:53pm
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maybe start small like half the acrage and let the crops build you up. thats what we did and so far it worked we started with 10 acres of corn and now we are up to 60 and i got 30 acres of beans (1st year ) but we are a lot smaller scale than you. use your head when you buy equipment junk is not worth the trouble. Shawn ------------- 190XT,D17and 7045 |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:00pm
| It will never work unless you and your wife both have a out side job. MACK |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:13pm
| Just remember when dealing with family sometimes it doesn't always end well, but it doesn't have to, if everyone is on the same page and clear about things. A good used 150 hp tractor, a 12 row planter, maybe a sprayer, soil finisher if the ground doen't notill well, Maybe a combine if you like working on them or hire custom, maybe trade some labor if you have the time during harvest season. Sounds like you have potetial for a good start. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:34pm
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Back in the 50's, 60's, 70's and early 80's you could make a good living on half those acres but today I think it would be tough to do it on 500 acres. Fertilizer, fuel and everything else has gone way up but price of grain has stayed the same. Yields are more today but costs are up even more. As Mack said you better have a source of income to help out until you know you can make a go of it full time. Caution is the word of the day. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 11:29pm
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by a 100hp used tractor....8rn planter. hire spraying, fertilizing and harvest done until u get on your feet. custom harvest is the best deal going. custom trucking from the bin's pays also. sprayer guys use 2012 technogy and you'll never be able to stay that current. maybe the second step would be to get set-up to fertilize, but again most of the time u can get it hired done, cheaper then u can do it. get a tractor with cab and triple hydralic's. I been doing this very successfully for 21yrs and wouldn't change a thing. I did harvest until 1997 but got out my calculator to figure finances on updating. that's when i learned how good of a deal custom harvesting is!!! ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 1:07am
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Keep the 100,000 in your pocket. Stay working wherever you are. And wait to inherit the farm. You cant make a living farming 500 acres. If you cant do everything that needs done,dont waste your time. IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 1:15am
------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
MACK wrote:Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 5:29am
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Before you think about what equipment to buy you NEED a buisnes plan. If you don't have a basic understanding of buisness managment you should keep your job and stick with hobby farming.
What i mean buy a buisness plan is start with income potential from crops and any other means of income from the farm. Put together a budget, how much will seed, fertilizer, land rent, equipment repairs, Labor [payroll] etc.
Don't spend all your money on equipment. You could start out by hireing custom operators to do the work that you don't have equipment for.
You have to decide if it costs less to do this then make payments on a $100000 combine that sits for 9 months of the year.
Be smart with your money and don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done.
Any thing worth doing is not easy. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 6:31am
| It can be done I start from nothing 17 years ago now farm 1200 acres with my uncle. I disagree with most of your replies if you have to rely on custom work for to much for to long you will not last. Having someone custom spray for you no way not for what you can get into a simple sprayer for. I have a very decent tall tired sprayer that paided $6000. When buying iron get the most value for your money. |
Posted By: realolman
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 6:43am
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You're 29 and have $100,000?!?!? You take the farm an I'll take over whatever it is that you do. |
Posted By: JarrodACFan
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 7:02am
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On machinery, don't get in a hurry unless you have to. Go to some auctions and pick up some Fastline or Tractorhouse magazines. Look through them and get a general idea of what stuff is going for. If you have made a plan with your wife's grandpa, even if it is a year or two before you start, when you run across a good deal on quality equipment, go ahead and get it ahead of time on the condition that you can sell it and not lose money if the farming deal falls through. That's my opinion anyway. ------------- 1956 WD45 Narrow Front Factory Power Steering, 1953 WD Wide Front Allis Express in Muncie, IN |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 7:16am
------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 7:46am
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My neighbor farms on a small scale in today's world. Farms about 700 acres and does quite well BUT, he, his wife and his almost 30 year old son do about 24 hours a day of chores. He farrows to finish hogs and he buys all the 2 week old calves he can find from dairies. He doesn't use antibiotics and gets a premium price for his slaughter animals but looses some here and there also. Lots of HARD work makes his lifestyle possible but he is just about as stuck to the farm as a dairyman, if ya know what I mean. About the only thing he hires done is spraying and anhydrous. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: realolman
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 8:27am
Yeah.... you're right. I am thankful for what and especially who I have. |
Posted By: ranger42
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 8:46am
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I disagree with most of the others. With cheap operating money right now, high prices, and a future farm bill that appears like it will still subsidize crop insurance., it is the perfect time to get in. The biggest question I would have is what kind of land rent are we talking about? If you have to be competitive with the previous tenant on the rent it may or may not be as attractive. Also, with 500 acres you could still work off the farm.
|
Posted By: KenBWisc
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:01am
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Go back and read what Dave 63 posted first, then read it a couple more times. If the numbers don't work it won't work. Five hundred acres is a part- time income at best. No to minimal investment to start out then work into asset ownership as income allows is the only way to mange the risk associated with getting started unless, someone else takes on the risk and you work for them and into the business slowly. I've been working with farmers for almost 40 years on setting up this type of business entry. Those who ignore Dave 63's advice struggle and many faii.
------------- '34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting! |
Posted By: ranger42
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:17am
| what numbers? we don't know what kind of dirt he has..or what kind of rent he's going to have to pay? That could change the whole perspective of the post. If he's going to be renting 500 acres of quality dirt at a cheap price then there is no reason he can't make a go of it. |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:45am
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+1 on a detailed business plan. Unless you are going to farm part-time, you don't need real big equipment to farm 500 acres. My Dad farmed 480 acres with a Farmall 560, and a couple of smaller tractors in the 60's. Crops were corn and soybeans and they were harvested with a mounted 2 row picker and a pull type combine cutting 3 rows of beans (40" rows). He would hire some help in the fall is all------------I was off in college at the time. A couple of 100 hp tractors would be plenty. See if there was some farmer in the area that would combine your crops in exchange for your help harvesting his acreage. By the way, does the farm have a house that your wife is willing to live in, and is she on board with farming as a way of life?? ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:54am
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A successful farmer told me in 1987 that a family needs at least 1000 acres of productive land (corn and beans)to make a decent wage and survive.Like others have said would be very difficult to make a go of it on 500 without another income today .Smaller farms can thrive by farming something other than corn, beans. Organic , vegetable , flowers , ( a guy by us is selling wild flower seeds and doing well) can be profitable ventures. Do some research , talk to farmers in your area that are in similiar circumstances. Like Dave said , make a plan that makes financial sense. ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:59am
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Until he retired about 10 years ago I had a neighbor who farmed about 450 acres and made a living at it. He had 4 row equipment, in about 30 years made a transition from corn to the corn crib to a combine. He usually got the place plowed, disked, and planted in one good week of long days. He paid cash for anything he bought at most of what he bought was new and green. He's still renting the farm house but sold the equipment spread over a few years to minimize the income tax effects of recovery on depreciated equipment. He bought several new tractors in that time period as well as cars and trucks. He didn't splurge but he still apparently lives comfortably. His contract was crop share. So the landlord took the lumps of bad years and was blessed in great years. That means the landlord pays for half the seed, fertilizer (and in mine), and the herbicide and gets half the crop delivered to the elevator. The landlord has to sell the grain to his best advantage. When I farmed a small patch, I did the plowing, the spraying (using a three point sprayer that I built), the planting, and the cultivating (when I cultivated), but hired combining. For the $20 to 25 an acre it cost I couldn't keep rubber parts replaced on a combine annually. And when that custom operator added a semi for hauling, I quit dragging wagons with my tractor. It sped up his combining to haul 900 bushel loads with the semi at 35 mph than for him to wait for me hauling 275 bushel wagons at 20 mph and for me it sure was a lot more comfortable on a chilly day riding in the semi cab than on an open tractor. And my tractor probably burned more gasoline than it cost at 4 cents a bushel to get the corn to the elevator. One of the early axial combines still works well, 1460, or 1660 and isn't too horribly expensive these days. But it will take maintenance and parts chasing. No till is nice for holding back soil erosion, it does require attention to chemical application because timely sprays are crucial to it working. On my farm, I started out full till, and transitioned to no till. I really liked how the ground stuck around during and after a May 5" overnight rain, but I didn't like waiting for the ground to warm up and dry so I could plant, especially beans in the corn residue. I added trash whippers to my planter and it handled the residue just fine and by fall that residue is consumed by earth worms and other organisms so I didn't find I had an accumulation of corn stover. My tenant now is a strip tiller, a decent (but expensive for the small operator) compromise between full till and no till that gets a warmed and dried strip for planting allowing earlier planting. I only sprayed glyphosate, I hired the stuff requiring an applicator's license, had to accept more crop damage but some of that stuff I didn't care to handle. I used my sprayer as the metering and carrying source for injecting 32% with the planter and sometimes for sidedressing. The expensive parts of my 4 or 8 row sprayer were the tank and the pump. I assembled the rest from standard plastic plumbing pieces accompanied by spray pressure regulators and nozzles, but I monitored the pressure and adjusted a needle bypass valve to regulate the pressure much closer than the pressure regulator ever did. I used an electric pump. The bypass went to recirculate the tank to keep it well mixed. If you can minimize the equipment investment by using vintage equipment, you can use your 100K cash for operating and improve your bottom line probably at least 8% by not paying the bank off the top of the income for the operating loan. Gerald J. |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 10:02am
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Check at the USDA FSA office. They have some programs available to help young farmers get started. I'm not sure if a farm being in the family if it would apply, but worth checking into. I am helping a young farmer to get started with my farm which is coming out of the CRP program; check around!
Start with the color/size of tractor you desire plus tillage equipment and a
real good / near new planter. Spraying and harvesting can be hired until you have good cash flow. ------------- |
Posted By: Henry se/k!
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 10:26am
| Two more inportant items. THE amount of crop ins you can obtain. And the length of contract. I would not try this with out enought ins to cover expenses. Losing your work for a year is bad, losing your expenses is bankrupincy. A 5 year contract is also needed, What if he dies and heirs want to rent to some one other than you. Also makes easer to get operating loan Good luck,its a good life,and you will have more than 401k when you retire, if you play your cards corectly.I have 55 years in farming businses I know more about running a combine than this machine |
Posted By: KenBWisc
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 10:35am
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Local input costs and historic /predicted 5 year average receipts are available from area producers, business consultants, accountants and the state extension service as well as budgets and business planning tools, forms and guidance. Establish lows , highs and mid-range expectations to get a feel of when you cash flow/be profitable and under what conditions you may not be. Then use the analysis to make informed decisions both now and with updated analysis of actual performance and expected outcomes.
------------- '34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting! |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 11:17am
Eldon I really hope you are kidding. IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 11:43am
| I started dryland farming cereals this spring after a 22 year hiatus. You need to be able to fix. If you have good mechanical skills or at least aptitude, you can make it happen. Keeping overhead low is the key. I use low tech, highly effective equipment no one else wants. With your money you should be able to find a good 7000 series tractor, and a good M2 or L2 combine, your tillage and seeding tools, and have lots of cash left. With that you should be able to handle 500 acres and still be able to work off farm. My GPS is in my head, my equipment is from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's. Its not for everyone, but I take pride in equipment that looks and operates like new. I have a 1946 chevy 2 ton grain truck pulled out of a pasture and restored. I have a 1965 Gleaner E pulled out of a pond, put back to good working condition. I have $1000 invested in seeding tools. I have a 1950 WD pulled out of a bush, that is getting restored right now. I would love to have newer larger tractor and combine, but I have $2000 invested in the both of them. If my crop is decent, I'll upgrade to a 7000 and an L2, but I'll be keeping both because they are too cool and useful in my mind to sell. As I said its not for everyone, and its nowwhere near where I left off 22 years ago, but its my dream and things are different now, good luck, Trev. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 12:44pm
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He cant make it on 500 acres? I farm 250 acres and I started farming about 4 years ago. I pay farm payments on 200 acres of ground that I've bought and rent about 67 acres. If you can get a reasonable rent and its good ground. Go out and get a decent 150 horse tractor and some older equipment and go after it. I dont have an off the farm job, and if I didnt have to make farm payment every year my wife wouldnt need a job either and thats only on 250 acres. 9 times out of 10 the guys that say you cant do it are the guys farming 2000 acres paying huge rent and farming with new equipment. ------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: John (MO)
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 1:19pm
| You have to work out a good business plan. Some could make it with 500 acres and many would fail. It is far far more than just working hard. Some operations you will need to do yourself and some will be better hired out. No two situations are alike so you can't go just by how someone else did something successfully. The biggest issue that I see, is what happens when Grandpa dies? Plan, plan, plan and put everything in writing. Get good legal and financial advice. As I have said, it's not just a mater of hard work, it's got to be smart work too. |
Posted By: ctbowles58
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 2:16pm
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Family and business most of the time is not good business. ------------- 190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more |
Posted By: deereequipment1
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 2:46pm
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Its sad, but it seems the most profitable crop is houses. Selling the land off to home builders is the most profitable way to work the land. It seems that farming big is the only way to do it. Volume to justify the needed equipment. No til seems the way to go, because its a few less times you have to ride around the fields burning up fuel. Eitherway, good luck. ------------- Raised on a CA,WD,D10 & D15. Now, proudly own and pull a WD45 high crop, WD45, WC, also own a D-10, D-12, G and a CA. |
Posted By: smallfarmer83
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 3:29pm
| To answer a few of everyones questions. Yes my wife and I both would work outside the farm. And yes she is completly on board with the farming operation I have a farm drainage buisness of the last 7 yrs I started from nothing When I turned 22. Decided school wasn't for me and havent looked back. So I do know all about buisness plans and being a mechanic. I'm now finally to the point I can start upgradeing Eqpt. I'm also a fireman at the local fire department. And yes the wife would be working outside the farm. We are currently building a house on the farm also so we will be close by. Just want to say thanks to everyone that replied to this post. I will keep updated on what's happens in the future. Thanks again. |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 6:58pm
| First, get sell off all of your toys. Motorcycle, snowmobile, boat, etc. You will be working to much to use them anyhow. Own your own sprayer, about 500 gallon tank should do. Custom operaters will not always come to us small farmers when we need them. You will also need a great planter. Look a finger pickup Kinze. They are easy to set up and run and give few problems. If you are thinking it would be fun to farm with an Allis tractor, look for a 7045 or 7060 PS. You need a cab for spraying todays chems. Some will say you don't need that much power, but for the money try to beat them. You can't. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 8:08pm
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You don't need a sprayer.... custom app is cheap and they have the technology you can't afford. ------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 8:43pm
I hope this doesnt make you mad AC Farmer, but the ones that are saying it,are the ones that have farmed for more then 4 years. The last 5 years have been fantasy land in farming. It wont always be this way. Have a year like I am having here. And you will be paying on what you loose in one year for the next 20. IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: John (MO)
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:02pm
| That's true, if the business plan shows you can't make it through 4 bad years in a row, you better keep your day job. I wish it were different and you could make it on hard work and luck, but that isn't the case. I do wish you the very best of luck. Sounds like you are really trying to get your ducks all lined up. |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:10pm
| I dont know about where you are from, but here, crop production is the only "business" that can be insured for minimum income. As part of your plan, include crop insurance as an expense. Keeps bad years from hurting so much, Trev. |
Posted By: AC 426 power
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 9:59pm
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Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 10:27pm
| You can make it on 500 acres, but it just depends on what kind of life you want to live. You won't be buying new equipment and pickups on 500 acres, but you could make it work. Like IG said, lately farmers are making money, but with a year where you don't make a crop such as this year it won't matter how high the prices are. Crop insurance will save you on a bad year, but you can't expect it to every year. I know people who live farming less acres but thats not their only income. There are no 2 people who manage a farm the same. One man may go broke on the same 500 acres another man makes a living on. |
Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 5:56am
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I WOULD SAY ..GO FOR IT . Check out new farmer programs at FSA . they have loans available at 1.5 % INTEREST .Having said that , i would borrow as little money as possible, to make it go . Try adding some livestock , more work , better return . Remember , beef cows will glean corn fields in winter . I F YOU HAVE ROLLING HILLS i would go 100 % no - till without hesitation . Work with your agronomist , and you are on your way .. Also develop a plan for marketing your grain , and or livestock .. ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |
Posted By: Lars(wisc)
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 10:40am
| The most important thing is to get a good business plan in place. It's good your wife has an outside job especially if she carry's the health insurance for the family. Don't get too hung up on equipment brand just yet. I know this is an AC forum, but if there is not a implement dealer/repair shop that has experience on a certain brand you want within a reasonable distance to you that brand of equipment is useless to you. Also be mindful of the current tenant's of the land right now. Depending on the contract they have, it may require a clause that requires a length of time to notify the tenant of 'non-renewal' of the contract. This may be be a full growing season in advance of the termination of contract. The current tenant may very well omit any fertilizer, crop rotation, or delay harvest till late in fall of the last year of the term, harvest during the muddy season tearing up the fields. In other words, the current tenant could throw as many hurdles in front of you as possible out of spite. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 10:48am
Dont make me mad at all. I've been farming on the own for 4 years yes. Family has farmed forever and I just set out with my own operation. I bought a 140 acres 2 years ago and we have had 2 dry years in a row now and I'm getting by. I had a real good year my 2nd year but that has been it for me. I have a 7045 and a 7080 and a N6 and I feel that with that equipment I could farm well over 500 acres efficiently and not need to upgrade. Everybody has their own opinion and thats mine. Total my family farms about 1000 acres (me and my mom/grandpa) using 90% allis tractors. Only newer things we own are a planter and some tillage equipment and we get by just fine. I mean, dont get me wrong, I hope to someday farm 1,500 or 2,000 acres, I just dont think you have to be that big to get by. ------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 1:07pm
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It can be done. There are a lot of variables. Your wifes atitude, her grandfathers and the rest of he families can make or break you.
Her grandfather may not be on board, there are lots of reasons he might hesitate to change tenants. 1.He is secure wih an established farmer rather tham taking a chance on you starting from scratch. 2. The current tenant has a relationship with him, he could have been the kid down the road when grampa farmed or the son of one of his freinds. His 500 acres may been how this guy got started farming. 3. He may know the loss of this land will take the current tenant out of farming or at least hurt him badley. Are there other family members that might have wanted or still might want to farm beside you? Grampa may feel caught between a rock and a hard place.
If Grampa is with the program how is the wife? If she isn't 100% with you on this just forget it. It won't work.
Other family members? This is a can of worms, but the most common problem with other family members is the feeling somehow you're either taking advantage of grampa or somehow your stealing their inheritance. Or they can just be jealous. No matter what they can make you, your wifes and Grampas life miserable. BTDT
OK, suppose overyone is on the same page and you and your wife are going to farm. 500 ACRES OF CORN AND SOYBEANS IS NOT A FULLTIME JOB. So what ever your day job is plan on keeping it too.
Have a business plan, if you don't know what that means you're not ready to farm. Planning and keeping good records are as important as picking good seed varieties and maitaining and operating equipment well. Also know that $100,000 is not a lot of money in todays farming. It's easier the spend than it is to make it back.
For machinery this would be my short list:
1. 160 hp FWA (New enough to be reliable, have parts availbe and be fuel efficient, mine is an 8050)
2. At least a 12 row planter set up for notill, possibly with interplant units for 15" beans. Your planter is the most important piece of equipment you'll own. You have 2 primary goals as a farmer to plant your crop timely and to establish as mear to a perfect stand as you can. Anything less results in less than maximun yield potential. And as a "part time farmer" you need to get back to the off farm job as quickly as possible. Notill soybeans work. I've got awy from drilled beans because of white mold but I'd like to start 15" beans. UofI studies show 1.5 bu per acre advantage to narrow rows.
3. A good high clearance feild cultivator or 1 pass tool. I usually make one pass in soybean stubble (after putting on NH3) before planting corn. Finding something in good shape used for a 160 hp or smaller tractor is getting hard to do.
4. A disk,,, well I haven't owned disk in nearly 10 years and in the prior 10 I could count the number of times I needed one on one hand. Other than leveling ruts they're not really a good way to do tillage.
5. A loader tractor. We had a WD45, then a D17 and now a 200 and I'm thinking about putting a loader on my "retired" 7060. you just can't have too big of a loader tractor. And in your case you would have a backup tractor to your primary. (A 7060 would be a good planter tractor on a 12 row planter and can pull anything an 8050 will in a pinch.)
That would be my short list. I have a lot more equipment than that but I whent from 950 tillable to 450 tillable. You' notice there is no sparyer, you can't afford to own the newest technology, you won't be as good an operator and if the chemical doesn't woork you won't get a free respray if you own your own, and you won't have to take time off work or worry abot getting everything done over the week end. And there's no combine, I work with a neighbor and we share equipment but there are two operations in my area that would combine and truck it to the area elevator for less than I could own and maintain a combine and wagons. Again remember how much time harvest takes would your boss let you have the time off? You can start with 500 acres and do a good job with minimal equipment and add a little as you go and hopefully add some land. I think today the UofI uses 1500 or 1800 acres in there "average size" farm calculations. As a crop adjuster I rarely meet farmers even with multi thousand acre operation that don't have somethig else going. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: countryguy828
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 1:48pm
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Listen to AC Farmer, I know him personally. He's a good guy and wouldn't steer you wrong.
Dave
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Posted By: John (MO)
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 2:47pm
| If you plant corn you will have about a 10 day window for the best time to get the seed in the ground. I'd want to be able to plant all 500 acres in half that time if all goes well. The reason is, because it won't always go well. Your harvest window is some larger but a custom harvester won't want to spend nearly a week on your 500 acres. That is going to leave you something around 340 days a year to do other things. Some of those things will need to be getting and keeping equipment in good working condition, but it still gives lots of time to keep another job. |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 6:01pm
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I think a good used 7040 or 7060 would be plenty of tractor for 500 acres. Just leave the pump alone. Like someone else said, Kinze planter no doubt. A 7720 would make a good combine. |
Posted By: Brampton 02 gt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 10:47pm
I grew up on a dairy farm during the 80's & 90"s. The only reason we had a non poverty lifestyle was becasue my mom had a good job off the farm. I had a chance to take over the farm. Sometimes regret not doing it and feel some guilt, but it is a hard life. Not saying there are not alot of wonderful things about farming - but now days you have to do it as a passion not for the $$$$$. Part of the reason I didn't take over the farm was I trully didn't believe I could do a better job than my dad and uncle. I could have brought new muscle and effort, but I don;t think there was enough money for me to support a family reasonably.
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Posted By: MI8050
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 7:07am
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According to an ag consultant I spoke with he told me keep as little overhead as possible: Tractor, no-till planter, sprayer and combine. I am thinning the herd to get to that point, I also am running a no-till drill and have an extra tractor. The quicker I got my mind wrapped around no-til, the quicker I got to having extra time and efficiencies. A divorce can cost you any profit you could ever make doing tillage, nobody has ever regretted watching children grow up and making memories! I would rent close to half of that 500 acres and get a start on the other half, I would try to find a White 6000 series interplant rig, they are cheap and accurate. Don't be afraid to spend money on a GOOD sprayer and planter, they will make you money.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 7:25am
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Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 10:55am
| Il Gleaner is 100% on when he said that the last few years have been good ones. Corn @ $7.20 and soybeans @ $15.50. Remember corn @ $1.80 and soybeans @ $3.80? Going to the FSA office to sign up for LDP's? Remember what land values were? How about the biggest one of all, remember how good it felt to walk with the one you love IN THE RAIN? When was the last time you got your tractor stuck and wished for drier days? When was the last time you got caught out in the shed and waited out a thunderstorm? This way of life is like standing on a mountain top. Everywhere you look, there is a steep downside. |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 4:55pm
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Smallfarmer83, I've been reading the posts trying to keep up with commentary. The first thing you need to do is decide whether you want to farm, or play at farming. If the answer is that you are only going to be partially committed, keep the drainage business going and keep putting money in the bank. If farmiing is truly your life's goal, don't let naysayers tell you how to farm or, not farm. It's a tuff life, but a very rewarding life when you see work(and I mean hard committed work) turned into gains, both in selfesteem and cash in the bank! You must priorize your life for success. Family first, self second, farming third. Of course, there will be times when you will need to shift values slightly to "git er done". At age 29, you are in an excellent time and position in your life. Meaning a lot of the "kid" has been worked out of your system.
Something else not mentioned is in finding a mentor, what we used to call a "dutch uncle", and in this case I would advise your grandfather -in-law. He has farmed that ground and knows the history of every acre, and every crop. Some have advised 8 & 12 row equipment, but my question is why? If you put time and hours in it's possible to plant 80-100 acres in a long hard day(dark to dark) with a 4 row. BTDT. My advice though is a good used 6-8 row planter, a 100-150 hp tractor,probably a disc, for chopping up trash, and a chisel plow. If you get a disc-chisel, maybe you would need a good field cultivator instead, to incorporate nitrogen and chemicals.
Several have mentioned having your own sprayer, but I wouldn't advise that at first, unless you get a small trailer sprayer for doing spot spraying. Don't buy more machinery than you absolutely need, grow into your operation caerfully. The commercial sprayers due excellent work, and if for some reason there is a problem, they are insured, and licensed, and certified. There is follow up schooling that must be attended here in Indiana as with most states to keep their certification. Also, it stops you from having to attend classes to be able to buy and used restricted chemicals. This is often overlooked, but some of the chemicals in use today are NASTY, and dangerous for a beginner.
When the crop is matured, is there a possibility you could trade hours with a neighbor for harvesting your crop? Sometimes, when the kids leave high school and start college there's a vacumn as far as help goes. If you must buy your own combine, I would reccomend a Gleaner for the capacity, and the simplicity of repairing it. An F would do that size acreage, but it would be nicer if you could find a nice M or L, and of course the later designations like II and III offer more refinement and creature comfort. When I still had my Mack, I hauled grain from the combines to the elevators, and that is a real good deal. Here around Remington, Rensselaer, and Goodland, they furnish augers to load in the field. All you need is the wagons or small trucks to catch and hold 1000-1200 bu. That way you keep that machine going. OOOPPPss! you said you had storage and drying on farm.
Another reccomendation I would suggest is in splitting that 500 acres in half and planting half in corn and half beans. There is a simple reason for that, you minumize your input costs, spread your work load out, and reduce potential crop failure. In a year like this, corn is taking a real beating, and so are beans, but, beans can wait on a rain a lot better than corn. Granted, there are many times when corn will return better returns, but year after year and on the average I maintained profitablity, and that's the name of the gain.
I am just curious what part of the Hoosier that you live in. joe ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: smallfarmer83
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 6:22pm
| To answer a few other questions that have come up. I'm wanting to farm this ground as a life long goal of mine. I'm gonna always keep my other buisness unless one day (15-20 yrs ) down the road the farming operation is really going good for my wife and I. The other reason is to keep the farm as a whole and not let it get sold off down the road. I want to keep it a family farm if at all possible. The local elevator is 25 miles round trip. And I have forgot to mention I do own a 200 Allis. I'm just north of Columbus Joe. I'm also blessed to be in a area that could support center pivots in the future if the funding is there one day. Be small short rigs but they could be put up and have the water supply to feed it. Again I appreciate everyone's input good or bad. I need all the honest input I can get. Thanks again. |
Posted By: John (MO)
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 6:52pm
| To make sure you can keep it in the family, you've got to get it legal today. You don't know what tomorrow could bring. People die every day and many many of them couldn't have guessed the day to within 10 years. Do not trust that there will not be family coming from all over looking for some part of an estate. |
Posted By: ctbowles58
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 8:46pm
------------- 190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 8:54pm
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I think you could do it, you just have to keep you job that you have. Try not to invest to much of your money that you have saved up. FSA have really cheap operating loans. I think they are under 2% intrest, or thats what it was when i got my last one. A good 8050 FWA and a eight row would probably be a good match. You can do about 60 to 70 acres in a good day with one. You probably need a field cultivator and a disc if the ground needs smoothing. There are lots of choices to have, i can say have your spraying custom done in the begining and maybe have your combining custom done. Of course you never know what prices are going to be in two years. Good luck to you and know that you are not the only starting farmer out there. I am one two and can say some dumb choices that I have made. ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 11:36pm
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Some good advice here. I'll throw in 2 cents 1. avoid debt as much as possible. Will Gramps rent on shares or do you have to pay cash? If cash- can you pay at harvest?2. buy 1 good 150 hp tractor as advised thru this post. Buy quality, don't get color blind or try to cut corners. If you need a 2nd tractor at planting, rent one.
3. don't skimp on planter and plan to use for beans also same machine.
4. Maybe trade work with another neighbor that has the equipment you don't and needs labor. Team up for planting/harvest.
5. You or your wife will still have to bring in outside income.
6. Government program no longer exists outside of insurance subsidy.
7. Don't forget that business plan. Don't forget the exit plan also if things don't go your way. Your biggest problem will be when Gramps is gone.
Good luck and go for it. ------------- Thanks Most Bad Government has grown out of Too Much Government- Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 5:19am
| i know several people that farm (full time) on 200 acres and less around here, they make a good living! they don't have jobs in town. they've purchased new equipment through the years and some used. i have big equipment for no more than i farm, but i want to get done faster as i do have a job in town! but after this year, when i retire...i'll be in it full time! i've had some set backs...but who hasn't? i'm still paying off "living money" from the last 2 years when i was in the hosp so much! i make as much (net) on the farm as i do from the job in town. i replace 1-2 pieces of equipment every year because of either update, or have to from a major break down! and am able to pay cash! i buy alot of my equipment out of iowa, as they don't charge sales tax on farm equipment! that quite a saving right there...if your good with looking around...you can save alot of money and still get good equipment to farm with! new is not always better....no matter how much you farm! as i also know of some local farmers that farm thousands of acres an have never bought a new piece of equpment in their lives! |
Posted By: Lars(wisc)
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 1:14pm
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Doing business with family may turn out to be the biggest challenge you face. There may be someone else with the same desire in the family that you don't know about. Everyone, and I mean everyone has to onboard with this. Everyone on your side of the family, your wife's side of the family, cousin's of cousin's have to on the same page. If anyone even gets a hint that gramps was giving you a deal of any sort, it could start a family civil war.
I can fully understand the desire to keep the farm in family, but in the end it has the potential for being your great undoing. I would strongly urge you explore the possibility of renting a different tract of land nearby, if only for comparison and to show family that you have thought this thru.
Can you make a go of it on 500 acre's? absolutly if the terms are fair to everyone involved. I envy your situation, I too, have that burning desire to return to farming, But the economics and the geographical area I live it's a virtual impossibilty.
As far as equipment, look around and talk to your peer's, what are they doing,what are they not doing. Talk to potential custom operator's about what they require, if no custom operator's are using 4 or 8 row combines, then a 4 or 8 row corn planter is of no use to you. What capacity is their custom operation? How many gravity wagon's will you need, when it's shelling time. What's your storage and drying system like? Will it be too slow for some operator's to deal with?
Keep us posted!!, Good Luck and don't hesitate to ask questions.
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