Sunday morning opinions needed XT
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52866
Printed Date: 11 Sep 2025 at 5:33pm
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Topic: Sunday morning opinions needed XT
Posted By: captaindana
Subject: Sunday morning opinions needed XT
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 4:25am
final drive drain hole. Rather than tear down sooo much to get this bolt out, I may drill out threads using a 7/8 in drill, remove bolt and rethread with 15/16. It's a chewed up 1/2 in hex cap screw an inch long. Hex head will easily exit a 7/8 in hole. Using a powerful magnet there doesn't seem to be enough clearance to get this past final drive gear. Should I drill and tap? I think so. I'm afraid of setting a fire if I try and torch the head off through the hole. Thanks, Dana 
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Replies:
Posted By: ctbowles58
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 4:58am
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if you have or can get a left handed drill bit smaller then the hole and start drilling there is a good chance it will back it-self out.or if not you can use an easyout. ------------- 190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more |
Posted By: JoeB
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 5:08am
| Easyout, good luck. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:20am
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If you don't have easyouts, I've used the tang of a metal file and vice grips combo before.Even a piece of square bar stock wedged in might work.
hth jay
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ac-mike
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:31am
| I would start with using the torch. Trimming only enough of the head off the bolt to pass. Have a water hose close to dose the fire which will only last while the heat in the cut bolt sustains it. The caution is that when you trigger the torch it will probably blow back at you because there is no where for the pressured gas to go except back out the hole you are working through. Keep the trigger pressure as low as possible and you should accomplish what you need. Be careful of the blow back!!!!!! I would never drill the housing, even if I had to tear it all down! |
Posted By: JimWenigOH
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:39am
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Captain,
Could you possibly make an extension for a Dremel tool grind stone like maybe 12" long or so. Hold the end of the bolt with a pair of needle nose pliers and start grinding on the corners on the head of bolt? I have 1/8" and 1/4" diameter grind stones. You could do a test bolt from the shop to see how much/ many corners would have to be ground away in order for it to pass through the hole. A second person would be necessary to hold the bolt while the Doctor does the grinding. Laprascopic surgery on a One-Ninety. Good luck. Like you said; if she could only talk!
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Posted By: FloydKS
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:53am
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I agree the torch 'blowback' would not be a pretty picture...don't have any new ideas other than given, I do like the attempt on the dremel tool idea, needs patience good luck
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Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 7:05am
| I'm with Jim and Floyd -- I have two air operated die grinders and they will remove lots of material fairly easily -- the problem will be to hold the bolt. On the other side of the argument , without dissasembling the whole unit how will you tell if there is damage from this bolt further upstream? |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 7:15am
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you could pull the brake housing and try to fish it out that way. I wouldnt drill that housing, if something happens.. its all 1 piece ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Jim Lindemood
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 7:18am
| That is an interesting situation - don't have any easy suggestion -- I would have to think real hard before I would drill and tap the casting - being the drain hole, it might be OK. With my luck - I would damage the casting and be futher up the creek. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 8:00am
| You genuinely have a mess on your hands here. To remove the unwanted bolt?? I guess I'd use a die grinder with a 3/8" diameter bit an inch long and wallow round-and-round and make the hole big enough to pull out the bolt. Thread the hole to whatever pipe thread you can and call it good. Now, what are you going to do about the open hole left behind by the bolt and lockwasher on the bolt?? I assume it is from the bull pinion/differential carrier and you'll always have transmission oil running right thru the hole into the final drive, causing it to always be overfull. You need to remove the left brake and brake housing and see if it is one of the upper bolts that could possibly be replaced in chassis. The inner axle brg?? it will require a fuel tank and platform removal to remove the rearend cover to be able to remove the bull pinion and then the bull gear and then the bearing. When assembling, you grease the inner axle bearing heavily and stick it to the bearing cup. Then you drop the bull gear into place, then install the bull pinion, then lift the bull gear up 2 inches and shove the axle thru the bull gear and into the inner bearing. And if you are able to patch all that up.....what about the crack in the bottom of the case?? I can't believe the bull gear and pinion aren't damaged from all of this?? |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 11:02am
| Wow Doc. I had assumed after looking at the parts that the only way this bolt [I don't see a lockwasher on it] could have gotten in here was someone dropped it at an earlier time. If it could have dropped from above and within leaving a hole for trans fluid to overfill finals then by all means I will check the carrier behind the brake housing. I'd better stop assuming! Thank you all! Dana |
Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 11:51am
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My experience in a similar situation was not good. Bought a car, one valve cover bolt was not installed, owner said he had a friend do the head gasket the year before, I put a new bolt in it and forgot about it...until 3 years later when the water pump seized up and burned the belt off...took the water pump off and there was the valve cover bolt wedged in the impeller that was all beat to crap, not to mention my almost new water pump belt burned right through...things like that always come back on me...just make sure the bolt is not missing from some critical spot, as Dr Allis said. Keep up the great work, I really enjoy your posts of all the 'fun' your getting out of your XT. I could write a book on two similar tractors I have here of our (the tractors and mine) experiences together.
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Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 11:58am
| Ok guys and Doc. I rechecked the carrier bolts from within the rear end. There are 6 half in diameter bolts. Many days ago when I first pulled the rear pto housing I checked those 6 bolts and they're all there. I just checked again and yes they are there. I will pull the brake housing and see what else I can find. I have assumed that once upon a time one of those 6 bolts came out and that is the bolt lying below my bull gear. I assumed someone replaced that bolt 'cause they're all in there. And I also assume they said "the heck with that bolt, I ain't gonna take all that apart to get it, it can just stay there". But what I can NOT understand is why they didn't seal the crack in the bull housing that caused all the oil except a half gallon to run out. But...I shouldn't keep assuming! OK, I'm off to pull the brakes. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 1:32pm
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How about turning that bolt on its side and then using a narrow sawzall blade to cut the head off. The hex just may come through the hole on edge. If not saw it in half and it will fall out. Gerald J. |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 1:56pm
| Gerald that is a good idea. I removed brakes and housing. The housing won't clear the platform so I bungied it up out of my way. I inspected bolts and all gears in there while turning the gears via a socket on inside axle bearing retaining bolt. I can see 4 of the carrier bolts and I can feel the other 2 behind the bull. All seem in order, however I noticed those carrier bolts seem black and appear to be grade 8's. The rascal in the bottom doesn't appear to be one from that family. And I see no other bolts that could have fallen from above. Remember my trans oil was yellow when I drained it last week because it was not flushed correctly last fall and water was still in there. The axle leaking oil was new final drive oil. It was not yellow so I don't think trans oil was getting into the final. So as of now I need lots of oring seals, gaskets, bearings and races and LUCK. Oh yeah and now I need some replacement brake bands and disc material and springs and ugh...As for the inner axle bearing it seems fine. Onve I install new outer brg i can tell for sure. Pinion and bull teeth look unscathed. And the beat goes on. Thanks everyone. Oh yeah, I still gotta get that bolt out! |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:11pm
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If you take the axle out, would you not be able to move the bull gear around enough to where you can wiggle that bolt out. I hate to say it, but maybe removing the platform would be the best option. It will give you a lot more room to work with and a chance to pull the top plate and inspect the bull gear much better. I can't remember for sure, but I want to think on my 7000 you would be able to gain a little more clearance with the axle out and prying the bull gear up against one side of the housing and off of the bottom of the housing. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:46pm
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Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 4:11pm
| My two cents worth . Use long nose vice ggips to hold bolt and dril with small bit and drill off enough to pull boat out. |
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 4:39pm
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Love to read these threads, am learning so much. Keep up the good fight Capt. Lots of good help on here to get this resolved. Cut it in half lengthwise with a mini hacksaw. ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 5:38pm
| You may be dealing with a grade 8 |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:02pm
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Another idea: Remove the axle housing from the tractor? With it and the axle out, surely you could get things moved around enough to pull the bolt from that hole? Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:12pm
| That just might work, Hurst. I've never had the axle "sleeve" removed from any 190 or 200 (no reason to ever remove one), but there just might be enough room to sneak a magnet or something down alongside the bull gear thru the axle sleeve hole. Worth a shot. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:39pm
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there is only a couple inches clearence from bull gear to sides of housing at most, i doubt the axle sleeve would come out far enough to get in past machined part of sleeve where is slides into bull gear housing without removing bull gear. so youd have to remove axle and bull gear anyway.
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 6:59pm
| What if you start fishing the bolt out, then when you hit the bull gear could you turn the bull gear for the bolt to ride a tooth out to the top? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 7:25pm
| Yeah....how about slide a "cow-magnet" in thru the drain plug hole and attach it in-between two bull gear teeth and get the bolt stuck to it and then rotate counter-clockwise the bull gear to the top with the brake housing removed.??? I know there are "cow-magnets" that would just be the correct size and length to accomplish this....about the size of my index finger. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 9:41pm
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I just figured since the axle sleeve is only sealed with an o ring that isn't too expensive to replace, it is worth a shot to try and pull it out, and if nothing else it gives you a place the pry up on the bull gear and get more clearance to get the bolt out. I took mine off on my 7000, but it's been so long ago that I can't remember how much room there was (although the 7000 has wider gears than the 190xt from what I've been told... so that would skew my perspective a little) Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: CAdon
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 10:10pm
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to "just get the bolt out" : in a similar situation i have used a pair of angled, skinny needle nose pliers to hold the bolt and ground off the hex edges with a very efficient long skinny dremel grinder bit used to sharpen chain saw teeth. "don't ask how i know this, please." would gladly send both to you but by the time they arrived i'm sure you'll have the problem resolved. thanks from all for taking the time to post photos and share the learning experience. ------------- 52 CA, 41 B and a little B1 oh, yeah... and an 8N ford snuck in there, too. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 4:42am
| whew! good luck Capt! |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:23am
| Good morning y'all. I pulled the axle sleeve days ago. My first few hours fishing was with my trusty flat cow magnet taped to a length of flexible green car wiring. Next try was with a powerful telescoping button magnet which I bent 90* and also taped wire to it so I didn't loose it! You know what I do have going for me? With the outer ax brg off I can lift and lower outside ax end a little which tips and tilts bull gear. Last year I locked my keys in my Camry twice and triple A got em each time no problemmo, I should call them lol. Also I could NOT find my flex shaft thing a ma jig grabbing tool...I need to try these options. I really like the idea of catching on the bull for a 'ferris wheel' ride to the top. After all that's how it got there. My biggest issue is getting a third or fourth helping hand! Thanks guys. CaptainDana |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 6:09am
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If you want to come and get me in your air plain I'd be glad to help. You have to get me back in time for the caravan trip to Plain City for the GOTO. :>) Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |