Advice freeing a stuck 426 ?
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Topic: Advice freeing a stuck 426 ?
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Subject: Advice freeing a stuck 426 ?
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 3:18pm
I have a 7030 that has a very tight engine. The previous owner died last fall at 42 after multiple strokes over 2 years. The tractor sat out without the exhaust covered and #2,3,&4 got water in. The engine has very little wear. We took the head off first and I've been soaking for a few weeks first with the acetone/ATF mix and now with the best penentrating oil I can get. 2,3,4,5 pistons are half way in the sleeve and 1 and 6 are at the bottom. Today I mounted a 6 ton jack on #2 and have been hitting on the hardwood block in #5. Correct me if I'm wrong but looking at another crank from a WD-45D, 2 & 5 should be going the same direction and 3 & 4 the opposite direction. I'm looking for advice and words of wisdom as what to do next.  ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Replies:
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 4:27pm
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A LOT of patience, lots of oil, and more patience, please.
I'd fill the cylinders full to the brim of ace/atf and wait overnight.Next morning check the levels, add more if low,lightly try to rotate the crank, wait again...give it 5-7 days of this routine.
My first D-14 sat for 30+ years and the above routine took 2 weeks before she'd move about 1/4 turn. Another 2 days and she's been purring like a kitten ever since.I've done it to several engines, mostly lawn tractors, and have had real good sucess. the key ,I think, is patience.be in a hurry and something will break ! including the pocket book to pay for the busted stuff !!
hth
jay
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 5:17pm
| Calvin, I would pull the pan and take the stuck sleeves and pistons out one hole at a time, I would push the sleeves out with the piston and rod together and then press the piston out the bottom of the sleeve, I think you could bend a rod doing what your doing in the picture, even if you get it to turn the rings on those pistons are probably stuck anyway. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 6:08pm
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The way you are forcing a piston down, half the pistons are being forced up by the crankshaft and their rods putting nearly three times the force to move each one of those up on the rod with the jack. Plus the tension load on the other two pistons trying to go down. A total many times the force on a rod from combustion. A rod in compression fails by buckling, bending often to the side because the I beam cross section is much weaker to the side. That cocks the piston AND the rod bearing adding friction if not locking the rod bearing to the crank and the piston to the cylinder. If you don't detect and replace the bent rods, the engine will be stiff, will wear fast, and one day WILL add one or more inspection ports to the crankcase by breaking and punching out the block while its running. A rod may have bent in the process and cracked and be nearly straight but weaker and do the same thing. Forcing the engine the way you are doing it will lead to further destruction without all new rods. You should unhook the rods from the crank and extract the assembly of rod, piston, and sleeve for each cylinder. You have some chance of salvaging the rods that way, but probably will need piston, rings, and sleeves which are a common engine rebuild component for a sleeved engine. You may need piston pins too. If you have forced it already you should plan on a set of rods to go with the pistons and sleeves and bearings. Gerald J. |
Posted By: norm[ind]
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 7:33pm
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WE NEVER TAKE THE HEAD OFF WILL TALK TO YOU IN OHIO BARB IS DRIVING AGAIN THIS YEAR SHE HAS QUIT BEFORE ALSO CLOSE TO HOME I GUESS
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Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 8:51pm
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Thanks guys. Nothing has moved yet so there has been no extra load on the rods. Was hoping to avoid pulling the sleeves but it looks like that will be the next job. New rings will be the most it will get or it will go down the road as is. It was a very good engine with no detectable wear in the sleeves. Its a 7030 factory canopy tractor if anyone is interested. Open to offers. ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 9:01pm
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As mentioned earlier Calvin. Keep patient. I soaked my D14 with ATF and acetone for several months before I tried to move anything. Soaked from the top first, then turned the block upside down and soaked from the bottom. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2012 at 9:03pm
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I freed up a WD once( I know different engine), and I did what Jay is suggesting. Soak with ATF/acetone, and wait for it to start draining past the rings into the bottom. I did this for a couple weeks and you could see that the solution got to the point that you would pour it in in the morning and it would be drained out by the time I got back from work. After this was working on all the pistons, then I tried to rock the tire and with little work it broke free. The engine I did it on had little to no ridge in the sleeves so I was trying to be more then patient so I didn't have to buy anything more then a head gasket. I would try that method before doing what you're doing as I think you have more of a chance of wrecking stuff pushing down on one piston when there is others that are stuck as well. I would even add that you can drain all the old oil out and then when the ATF/acetone drains down in the pan, all you have to do is drain it and reuse it. ------------- 1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 5:56am
Don't give up on her Calvin. Just take your time and do it right. (Easy for me to say) I would pull the rods anyway and at least have them checked for trueness. It only takes time and money. Of course I've got more time than money and that don't seem to be much of either. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 10:07am
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keep trying to turn the crank, back & forth little by little. patience & ATF/Acetone mix. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 10:16am
| Freed up my WD last fall with acetone and atf. Took a month. As above when it start to drain, you know you are getting there. The other thing I did was put barbeque fluid in each jug and light it. I dont know if that helped free things up, but I thought some heat in the block might help loosen the bond and wouldnt hurt anything, just an idea. Trev. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 12:23pm
Calvin, I'd do what Kevin said above and then then re-hone and replace all the rings in all six holes, then you will have a good engine and it will be back running and you can work on something more important job and not be sitting and watching the jack pushing on that piston for weeks and weeks, if you do free the pistons up with the jack pushing pistons down, I'll bet then you will still need over haul it in a month or two after it burns oil from the stuck rings. Been there done that. Yes I have freed up engines this way and had it work but then had to go back into it because it burns oil.
 Don
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Kevin in WA wrote:Posted By: Adam Stratton
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2012 at 6:46am
| Not that I am saying its a good idea, but there are several ways to increase your force (and I know that might cost a rod, but it might get it broke free too) You could put another jack on another piston that is headed down, or you could pull the pan and take loose the rod caps on all the other pistons headed down and just push one at a time. As you know, you are trying to move the engine instead of just one hole the way you are now. Ditto what everyone else said about the rings. I got a 7060 that was in similar shape that had one very bad cylinder. I replaced the bad hole, then took everything else out, inspected and lubed the bearings, cleaned the rings (several were stuck), lightly honed the cylinders, lubed everything up real good, and put it back together. I have put 250 hours on it or so since, and it runs very well. |