Need opinons on 6000 series tractors
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51594
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Topic: Need opinons on 6000 series tractors
Posted By: mark-east-tn
Subject: Need opinons on 6000 series tractors
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2012 at 10:34pm
| Well guys Im thinking of buying a 6060-6070-6080 allis , Just wonderd about pro's and con's of them, wanting one to bushog with and to plow and just whatever. Thanks for help |
Replies:
Posted By: Longmeadow Farm
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 5:18am
| I owned a 6060 in the early 80's. Good little tractor and as i recall was rather stingy in the fuel department. I now own a 6080, which is used primarily as a backup tractor..baling, chopping and some moderate tillage work, i.e. .. on a 4x16 plow... The 6080 is surprisingly agile for its size...maybe because it is a bit lighter than my old green machines, but somehow keeps up with them in the field. I turned the pump down to the low output side a few years back ... is now very fuel efficient..and doesn't smoke like a chimney..and the oil stays cleaner longer. I would be cautious/wary of the early 6000 engines, as they had external thrust bearings. Some external bearing kits were field installed by dealers. The original engines(which were unmodified combine engines) tended to push the crankshaft out the front of the block..due to the rather heavy duty combination clutch pack. Later engines had a reinforced block and internal thrust bearings. Agco can get you the documentation regarding the external bearings... but I'm sure you know all this...good luck. |
Posted By: Michael (WI)
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 10:45am
|
Same as what was siad above. Furthermore the later FWA tractors had improvements with turning radius as well as the engine, for what you want to do you probably don't need the FWA though. I have been told by several people that if your stock 6080 is not putting out at least 100 h.p. then someting is wrong. I have never dynoed ours but I used to pull a 21' 1200 field cultivator with levelers on behind. I could work about 50 acres on a tank of fuel.
As far as individual models the 6080 had a 3 speed range while the 6060 only had 2 I think. Also, the 6080 transmission was fully syncronized while the 6060 was not.
|
Posted By: Smokey Joe
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 8:42am
|
The engines in the 6060-6080 all have internal thrust bearings, how would an engine live when your constantly pushing on the crankshaft. Next if you find a tractor that has the external bearing thats the one you want to look at, these external bearings save the crankshaft and block. This was designed to take the thrust load off the internal thrust bearings and put it on the external bearing. If the tractor does not have the external bearing and has high hours it could have 1/2 of forward and aft movement, it can throw your clutch adjustments off along with it will wear the internal thrust bearing completly off and start eating the block. I would only look at ones with external bearing, most 6060's did not have them. ------------- 210,220,7010 AC,7020 AC,7040 AC,7045 Pedal Tractor, 8050& 8070 and Parts and Pieces of Many More!!! |
Posted By: ky wonder
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 1:42am
|
the 6060's used a smaller clutch than the 6080's and the issue was not as prevalant in the 6060 tractors, the 6070, as well as some of the later other models had the enjines that were strenghened to help with this issue.
the tractors where not faulty as much as they where inproperly used by owners who did not understand the european pto clutch systems, this is a 2 lever system that requires the proper operation to prevent a constant forward push on the crank shafts, and if properly utilized they will last just about forever
the system is a fiat design and is very strong, i have a 1970 oliver 1355 (FIAT)that has in excess of 10000 hrs on it and it has never given a problem with this pto design
i also have a 1982 6060 with 3100 hrs on it and I love it.
it is nimble, easy on fuel and powerful, the tractors are light in the front end so be prepared to look for some weights to hang on it for hill side operations
my 6060 does not know that a 3x16 plow is behind it, or a 10' heavy duty bushhog in thick crep cover for that matter
it is easily mounted and fun to drive,
a friend of mine who farms with fords and IHs has been using mine lately due to him having a tractor broken down, it is doing the work that his 756 was and he claims it is just as stout and way cheaper on fuel than the 6 cylinder ih tractor, and his boys fight over who is going to get to drive it
my 6060 has been cranked up about 15% to about 75 hp, it will easily turn 2600 rpms when it is suppose to run at 2300, it handles a large old new holland roller with ease
and i pull a 12" heavy disk with it in plowed ground without issue
a video of my 6060 pulling a 10" woods in heavy crep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CMZagGLquk&list=UUezxf2BBeEXbA4Ho_ZWmmfA&index=5&feature=plcp" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CMZagGLquk&list=UUezxf2BBeEXbA4Ho_ZWmmfA&index=5&feature=plcp
video showing it pulling 3x16s this spring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nihgwxF7pY&list=UUezxf2BBeEXbA4Ho_ZWmmfA&index=2&feature=plcp" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nihgwxF7pY&list=UUezxf2BBeEXbA4Ho_ZWmmfA&index=2&feature=plcp
i have a jd-4020d, that i seldom use anymore because i like the 6060 much better ------------- i like old tractors of all colors |
Posted By: Longmeadow Farm
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 4:27pm
|
It's somewhat fascinating to read some of the responses regarding the 6000 series engines. However, this blog covered the 6000 engine internal/external thrust bearing issue in considerable length in 2009 and again in 2010 and referred, to some extent, to the Allis Chalmers service bulletins of the early 80's.... rendering some current commentary notwithstanding... So I checked my rather old and worn documentation still stuffed in my 6080 folder...periodically referenced when checking external helper thrust bearing tolerances... and this is what I found. Thrust bearing kit number 276303 is for all 6000 series engines. My 6080 is a late '81 serial number 2096 with engine serial 10363. The kit documentation indicates what to do in the event the front crankshaft pulley moves more than specified in three measurement ranges... from just installing the kit to replacing the engine short block and main/rod bearings. The kit documentation states that there is no need for the kit/external helper thrust bearing in/on replacement short blocks. It goes on to further indicate that the "new short block has a double area thrust bearing.. internal to the engine". However, I believe that keeping the PTO clutch engeged with drive disengeged was still recommended... when not in use. When I'm through baling/chopping/spreading manure, etc..I immediately disengage the PTO drive, while still in the field, and engage the PTO clutch. I only had to "rearrange" the shims one time in all the years I've owned the old girl... but then I keep the thrust bearing greased.. I don't have the serial number break for the new/revised short block engine... but I recall it was sometime in '82 that the new block made it into the 6000 series engine production line... Maybe about the time the decals were changed. Please.. no more opinion pieces. This is supposed to be a stand up blog. |
Posted By: ky wonder
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2012 at 3:41am
|
blog?,
i thought it was a forum welcome to those who have a opinion, several different opinions can be exchanged, and true knowledge gained by the experience of others
a blog to my understanding is where one individual writes there opinion without asking for that of others.
this forum i believe welcomes opinions, it is up to the reader to garner that which sounds logical and that which does not
such as the different clutch packs in the tractors the 6060-6070, as well as the 5045 and the 5050 all use the smaller 11' clutch with 5 pads where the 6080 use the heavier 12" 6 pad clutch
http://endurancepower.com/media/CLUTCH_ALLIS.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://endurancepower.com/media/CLUTCH_ALLIS.pdf
the heavier clutch was needed for the extra power of the 6080 tractor and the heavier clutch was a contributing factor in the front bearing failures,
but also,
so was the fact that many farmers would leave the pto engagement knob pulled up and the pto lever pulled back causing the strain on the cranks
i have seen many more allis chalmers 6080s that have been repowered than i have 6060's
my 6060 is a very late 82 model so i have no first-hand knowledge of the earlier tractors or their issues, and i do not overload the one that i have,
i use it to do the work it was designed to do!
a lot of the 6080s that have gone down in my opinion where pushed beyond what the little 200 ci enjines where capable of delivering over the long haul.
100hp is a lot to ask out of a small 4 cylinder, and much better delivered from a 6
think about it 100hp out of a 6080 with the 200ci, is what the old d-21 was delivering with a turboed 426ci 6 cylinder
all the tractors are running basically the same 200ci enjine delivering the factory hp at the same rated 2300 rpms
with the largest difference being the intercooler on the 6080
john deere is doing the same thing with there 179ci enjine, the enjine is delivering 45hp in a 5210, and over 75 in the new 5075e series., thats a lot of boost from a very small turbo
there is no way on earth that the 5055e will survive as long as the old 3020 diesel with their 227 ci 4 cylinder, they are to light for the day end and day out torture the older tractors strived under
the 60 series tractors where design to fill the 60/80 hp range, if i wanted a 100 hp tractor i would be hunting a black belly 7000 series
just my humble opinion ------------- i like old tractors of all colors |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2012 at 6:17am
|
I remember our 6060 dino'd 72 HP from the factory as the dealership hooked it up when we purchased it. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: ky wonder
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2012 at 5:06pm
|
i dont know what mine dynos at i know i have spun it out, but never choked it down when working in the proper gears ------------- i like old tractors of all colors |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2012 at 7:16pm
| What exactly is the European pto clutch system compared to the one I'm used to?? Just curious. Thanks, Ryan |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2012 at 8:01pm
| So is it recommended to have the external bearing kit on a 6060 ?? Seen them on 6080,s alot but no 6060,s |
Posted By: Steve Zidlicky
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 12:24am
| we bought a 6060 new in 83 sn 4020 and not too long afterword the dealer installed the front thrust kit. has about 10,000 hours now and still going. the dealer dynoed it in cold weather using straight no 1 diesel and it put out 79 hp. the engine had 4 hours on it when that was done. It still pulls the round baler and 3-16 plow and has enough power. we had to go with the 3-16 because of the 18.4 28's that it came with would not allow use of a 4-14 and in some of our ground it would not pull 4-16 unless geared down and weighted heavy. our plow has high speed moldboards and we plow in 5th gear. I put 14.9 38 on the rear and it still pulls fine in 5th gear |
Posted By: ky wonder
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 4:16pm
The Fiat designed pto systems use two seperate levers to engage And to apply the live pto performance
one lever engages the pto gears with the main driveline system, requireing the main clutch to be pushed in to get the pto in gear,
in the old fiat/oliver 1355, and the fiat/allis like the 5040, have the pto engaged by lifting the long lever (PTO hand clutch)on the left side of the transmission, this then allows the pto to be put in gear with the small lever that sets on top of the transmission, (these early tractors(but not the 6000 series) had the ability to operate the pto off either the main shaft live selection or off the grown driven pto side, meaning it would stop the pto if you stopped the tractor wheels (like the first generation non live pto tractors) depending on which way you moved the small lever.
once the small lever was engaged to the live side,the tractor can be used as a live pto, allowing the pto to be disengaged and reingaged without using the foot clutch by lifting the long hand clutch lever
the early american live ptos where used with either the two stage clutch or a hand clutch system like in the old power divider clutch of the allis tractors, old tractors like the fords, fergusons , and the other morth american brands have only the one small lever that engages the Pto and the rest was done by either the two stage foot clutch or the external hand clutch
the independant pto that is the third generation pto are simply engaged without any secondary operator clutch use, just throw the lever in gear
the 6000 series is a fiat design that uses the two lever system, and when the lever by the operators right knee is pulled back into the off posistion, this applys a forward push on the pto clutch that applys pressure on the crank,
when the pto is not in operation, the pto engagement knob on the operators left should be pushed down to disengaged, and the pto lever by the operators right knee should be pushed forward as if the pto is in operation to keep the unnessacary pressure off the enjines crank
a lot of these old tractors have had failures because operators do not know how to correctly utilize these systems
i learnd how these operated in 1970, because that is when grandaddy bought the old oliver, he had traded up from a old 600 series ford and he made sure that any body that operated the tractor understood how to do it right because the dealer, had stressed this with him at the time of the purchase
------------- i like old tractors of all colors |
Ryan Renko wrote:Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 8:22pm
| Thanks for the knowledge!! Ryan |