Farm Equipment - D 17 Diesel

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D 17 Diesel

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Category: Allis Chalmers
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Topic: D 17 Diesel

Posted By: D17Diesel
Subject: D 17 Diesel
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 4:20pm

Hey guys got the 17 back together and got it running finally. The problem is it runs great at idle but about half throttle it breaks up and runs really ruff white/grey smoke skips pretty good too, slow it back down to an idle and it runs fine. I have done nothing to the injection pump its self, while it was apart i put a new head gasket in it pulled the injectors an had them pop tested all turned out good. new injector seats new filters and new line from filters to pump. It ran fine before all of this just wondering if anyone had any input on what might be wrong. While it was running i cracked all the injectors and got fuel out of all of them but it looked like it had air in it. I Have no fuel leaks anywhere.
Thanks again dennis

Replies:

Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 7:21pm

Try and advance the inj pump timing a couple degrees and see what happens. Loosen injection pump and tip the top of the pump towards the engine block 1/8" at the pump mtg flange and retighten the two nuts. It will start harder, but should run better.

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 9:09pm

thanks for the reply, the pump was never off the tractor or played with so the timing should still be the same no? Ill give it a try and see what happens it starts really good right now just fogs white smoke and skips also seems to be reving up a few 100 Rpms for a second and them returning to normal a "gallop" i guess i cracked all the injectors and got some black stuff out of them, the whole system was drained and capped for about 4 months so i dont know where it came from.
Thanks again dennis

Posted By: Gary(OR)
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 11:43pm

Sounds like the govenor ring inside the pump is deteriorating/coming apart. They're made of a type black plastic. Will cause erratic rpm/surging above idle. Relatively cheap and easy to replace. Was about $25 for the ring 7or 8 yrs ago....

Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 6:20am

If you raised injector popping pressures, you have in essence retarded the timing just a tad.

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 7:54am

Ok thanks ill look into that i didnt rise the pop pressure i just had it checked also the spray pattern was good thanks again ill give it a try this after noon 2inches of rain today

Posted By: D17countryboy
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 9:31am

My Uncle told me since my great grandfather bought my D17 diesel brand new from dealer back in 1963 it always smoked gray/white smoke when you opened it up to half throttle or wide open, but at idle or a tad above it would run normal and it always seemed to have its full horse power. I don't believe it has ever had the fuel pump removed at anytime or played with other than new O rings put on the injector lines. It always starts after a little shot of either and runs great, and this tractor ran all summer long in a hay field of New York six days a week probley five to six hours a day. I believe it has had a few motor jobs in the past, one that I remember helping my Uncle with atleast.

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 9:42pm

Thanks guys i check the pump timing bumped it a little with no help checked to make sure i had a good stream of fuel out of the filters check the filter in the pump its self all seemed good. took it out on the road opened it up 4th gear let the clutch out runs great till the motor catches back up then it dies back out runs ruff smokes white smoke terrible. any more ideas?
thanks again dennis

Posted By: Don(MI)
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 9:49pm

Dennis, I am no diesel mechanic by far, but ran into a similar issue with the D262 motor in a D-19.

Seemed to have similar symptoms as yours. But, we had the fuel pump apart, at least the cover. If I remember right, there was some type of plunger or spring that was either not in the right spot, or reversed. Its been long enough I can't remember. What ever it was, we realigned it, and wham, she fired on all 6 at full throttle. HTH

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Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 4:06pm

Hey guys, turns out it was timing now my next problem is i cant turn the pump far enough to get it to run smooth at wide open so i have to jump a tooth on the drive gear my question is, does the power steering and all have to come off to get the front cover off the engine? Thanks dennis

Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 2:01am

The whole front end and timing cover must come off to jump a tooth. BUT, I can't/refuse to believe that it needs a whole tooth advance to make it run smooth. Better get the pump off and rebuilt before you go into the engine. I believe you have an internal pump issue.

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Yea, I can fix that.....

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 8:11am

Im up for suggestions the tractor ran really nice before i had the head serfaced and a new gasket never touched anything on the pump at all got it back together and today had it running turned the pump all the way towards the tractor and it smoothed out ran nice no smoke until it got to wide open then started breaking up. SO i thinking it needs more timing but i could be wrong. How hard/ expensive are these pumps to rebuild?
Thanks for any help Dennis

Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:33am

I could work on it for you. DB pumps usually run around $500 for a freshen up.

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 12:55pm

As far as i know the pump has never been touched before what all do you think it might need? So you guys dont think its a timing issue?
Thanks again guys

Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 6:18pm

Timing could be a pressure problem from inside the pump, dirt, debris inside pump. Old age and sitting for awhile related to pump problems. I understand nothing else was messed with while you had the head off but there are other issues that can make a pump do lots of funny things. I'd pull the injectors and send them off with the pump to make double sure they are tuned and set up correctly.

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Yea, I can fix that.....

Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 9:38pm

could have been caused by fuel in the pump degrading while you were working on the engine. I have been seeing more of this with all the bio-diesel blends out there. How long was it down for the repairs?

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

Posted By: Gary(OR)
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:36pm

If you disconnect some return lines and find black particles, govenor ring is going bad. Very common on these Roosamaster pumps......

Posted By: D17Diesel
Date Posted: 18 May 2012 at 7:00am

i had it apart for a power director and head gasket an paint job since the begining of december
thanks guys dennis