1951 WD voltage question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49809
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Topic: 1951 WD voltage question
Posted By: Geppy
Subject: 1951 WD voltage question
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 9:34pm
| I recently bought an Allis Chalmers WD and the guy I bought it from thought it was a 12v system. I bought a new 12v battery for it and fired it up. It runs great but after several times using it the battery went dead. I tried checking amp draw, voltage at battery while running etc...and it appears the Generator may need to be polarized cause it is discharging possibly. My question is with no amp meter, no marks on the voltage regulator how do I determine if the Generator is truly 12 volts? The starter and Distributor have the Delco-Remy tags on them but nothing stamped in the middle. The only marking on the Generator is a 12V stamped on the top near the pulley end. Your thoughts? |
Replies:
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:04pm
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what is the polarity of your battery? It should be Positive grouind.
If you didn't polorize the genny, you should try that.
The reason the battery went dead could be a stuck contact in the regulator. If you remove the regulator, turn it over, and on the back it should be stamped Neg or Positive along with voltage. Many of the newer regulators will work with either polarity. Bob
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Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:13am
| Bob, it is + ground sir. I'll take a look, any thoughts on determining the generator voltage? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:31am
|
Fully charge the battery,make all connections, Flash or Polarize the generator. Check voltage at the generator, start the engine and check again. If you aren't getting 13.5 volts while running, it probably won't charge the battery but a fully charged battery should start and operate the engine for a long time. Most times when a tractor is changed to 12V, it also is switched to negative ground. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:06am
| Now another question, how do I convert to - ground? |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:05am
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To convert to negative ground you swap the battery cables, probably takes new ones so the connectors fit the posts. The battery posts are different size to remind users of polarity. You swap the coil primary connections and the ammeter connections (with the ground disconnected on the battery). Then you flash the generator to set its polarity and you are done. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 12:09pm
|
Thanks for the help sir! To flash the Generator what do I need to do? |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 1:11pm
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Generally to flash you connect the battery and armature terminals on the regulator for a couple seconds. There is often a spark. It should be covered in the operator's manual. You flash before starting the engine after changing battery polarity or installing a generator that has been idle a long time or has been worked on. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 2:02pm
| Gerald you've been awesome. Thanks so much |
Posted By: Mike56073
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:08pm
| Are you sure it's a 12V generator? It would be odd to have that on a WD, most of the time they were converted over to Alternators if they went to 12V. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:28pm
No he's not sure, that is why he asked: My question is with no amp meter, no marks on the voltage regulator how do I determine if the Generator is truly 12 volts? Many so called 6 volt generators have operated for years on a 12 volt system. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Mike56073 wrote:Posted By: Mike56073
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:34pm
| Well, if he doesn't know what he has, then why are you having him check everything with a 12 volt battery installed? Sorry, but in my line of work the smart(er) thing to do is make sure you have the correct components installed before you even make the connections................. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:39pm
He already bought the 12 volt battery and was asking what to do to make it work and check it out. If the generator is original it won't hurt a thing to hook it all up and run it. And like I said many original 6 volt generators have run for years working fine on a 12 volt system. If he doesn't hook it up and check it out, he will never know if the third brush has been bumped up to put out higher voltage or if the pulley was changed to make it run a little faster. If it works he's good to go. If it doesn't charge the battery, he has many options. He can leave it the way it is and charge the battery on a charger a couple times a year. He can tweak the system to get it to charge enough to work OK, he can have the generator rebuilt as a 12 volt or he can switch to an alternator. He still is out nothing to hook it up and try it the way it is. How smart is that? ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:49pm
|
I'll add something else. He said "no marks on the voltage regulator" " The only marking on the Generator is a 12V stamped on the top near the pulley end." This kinda leads me to believe it has been converted to 12 volts long ago. The 6 volt 3 brush Allis system never used a voltage regulator. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Mike56073
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:02pm
| Sorry, my bad. I missed the part where he said he had 12V stamped on the genny. |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:40pm
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Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:40pm
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Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:41pm
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Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:42pm
| Again the guy I bought this from told me it was a 12 Volt system but I don't think he knew Jack Sh#t about it. So I am trying to educate myself. |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:43pm
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:47pm
That looks like one of the external resistors used on a 12 volt system with a "6 volt" coil. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:49pm
|
Ok guys here are a few pics of what I have on my WD, yes they have overspray on them cause I am in the middle of painting it! The Generator is only a two brush, and you probably can't see the 12 V stamped on it though. The voltage regulator has no marks at all. The resistor on the battery box is I assume to lower voltage but for what reason I have no idea. I also included a pic of the distributor and coil. I assume the starter is good for either 12 or 6 volt cause it still works. So maybe this will clear up some speculation. I appreciate everyones advice, any ideas on what I can eliminate or change to get this battery to charge is much appreciated. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:14pm
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Looks like it is a 12V gen from the step down in the field frame. Try this site to find the info on checking the system and checking the wiring http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/electrical/49dr324/index.htm" rel="nofollow - http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/electrical/49dr324/index.htm
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:30pm
| Do you know of any reason I can't get rid of that resistor and go with a 12Volt coil? The tractor has no lights. I'm going to buy a set after the paint job is done. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:05pm
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I'm getting in on this late but, if the Gennie says 12V stamped into it, its probably a 12V unit. Also, a lot of your 12V versions have the step down chassis as Coke mentioned. A good thing to do is loose that resistor, and install a 3.0 ohm internal resisted coil. This will eliminate missing, hard starting etc that comes with those external ballast resistors. You need to establish 2.7-3.3 ohms of resistance in the Ignition circuit running 12V's with a 4 cylinder engine. The 3.0 ohm unit sticks you right dead center. What I would do is have a local rebuilder check the operation and output of the Generator. Determine whether or not the Gennie is working properly and its total amperage output is. Once that is established, have your rebuilder mate a new VR to the Generator via max output recorded. Now you have the two units that will work together as a team. Make sure your wiring and connections are good, and wire either PG or NG. After you decide which way you want to run the system, polarize the system. You should be good to go from there! HTH Steve@B&B |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:09pm
| Good advice, I have a local auto electric shop here in Churubusco that I will have take a look. So your saying I can find a 12V coil with an internal resistor correct? I know with my other tractor I had to buy a new starter and the guys at the shop told me to bring the generator in and get it checked and have a regulator matched to it. I will do this for sure. Thanks again. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:12pm
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If you have problems finding a coil, we have lots of em' in stock... Steve@B&B |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:12pm
| One more thing, does any of this affect the distributor? |
Posted By: jccleav
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:18pm
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No. The difference in coil resistance takes care of that.
------------- The joy is in the journey. AC "B" and "WD" and "C" |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:39pm
| Good deal, thanks to all. |
Posted By: Geppy
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:20pm
|
Gentlemen, I have another dilemma I found out when trying to plow today that my Hydraulics work great raising the plow but they won't lower the load!!! If I raise and lower the lifting arms without a load they go up and down fine, but under a load they won't lower. Any ideas? |