OK guys I'm at wits
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47195
Printed Date: 29 Aug 2025 at 10:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: OK guys I'm at wits
Posted By: captaindana
Subject: OK guys I'm at wits
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 4:36pm
| end! This morn we took the plastic screens outta the gascolaters, cleaned and resealed. I made a plywood 'fuel cap' with a cork gasket to set over filler neck. It has a hole drilled through to accept my rubber tip airgun. I pressurized a psi or 2 and checked every conection with a soapy water spray bottle. Still surged. We took apart every single connection on the feed line from tank to pump and resealed. On 2 ends we actually cut the pipe and reflared. Still surging. We then hooked a new hose from a 5 gal container of diesel up to the primer inlet and primed. It was a clear hose. Bled all. Ran it for 15 mins; surging at every power setting. No change at all. Hooked back to original line. Ran it with the fuel tank under some pressure, no change still surging. While running at 1000 rpm's it surges to 1200, then back. If I hold my hand over the air intake and choke the inlet it starts laboring and the surge about goes away; pull my hand off and the surging returns. I am out of ideas. I spoke with the pump rebuilder and he says he'll look at the pump again but I hate to jump to conclusions. What would y'all do next? Thanks, Dana |
Replies:
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 4:45pm
|
Loose governor ring in the pump? Surging in a gas engine often comes from one of the carburetor ranges, either idle or power being out of tune so as it switches back and for it runs better or poorer. Some governor-carburetor systems and linkages take a second spring to damp the linkage to keep it from surging. Hows the cleanliness of the return line from the pump? An aging pump sometimes fills it with bits of governor ring and that upsets the pump and governor. Gerald ? |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 4:48pm
I question if the WIX filter is correct? WIX 33354. I question the pipe plug on top of the filter to bleed; is that what it's supposed to have? I just thought.. I will go up and unhook pipe feeding pump at pump and pressurize backwards to the primer and plug the primer inlet to prove that section isn't leaking. Can I hurt anything [pump] by pressurizing inlet of hand primer and leaving pump inlet pipe attached to pump?
|
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 5:04pm
| Hi Gerald while running I look into the fuel tank with a flashlight and the return line is really dumping fuel back into the tank. I was amazed how much return fuel there is. I'm pretty sure it's open. Of course the return line above injectors was cleaned, painted and new rubber seals. And the pumps newly rebuilt, the old pump never pumped with me. |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 5:39pm
Another thought. Can I take out the fitting that screws into the pumps inlet? Doesn't it have a screen on it?
|
Posted By: David G.
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 6:09pm
| My 190xt did the same thing. I lived with it for a while, then I put a new set of injectors in it. It seemed to fix the problem. Just 4 injectors were spraying properly. The other 2 were dumping in fuel. Just a thought. |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 6:18pm
| Pump rebuilt, injectors new. Repulled and checked one injector it was spot on. |
Posted By: rob(ont)
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 6:18pm
| Cap'n, see that primer pump thingy next to the fuel filter? When you pump it, does it leak or bypass bubbly fuel ? If so, there will be an air leak here. Try replacing the plunger assembly. Had this problem in the past. Should be able to replace just the plunger, don't neccessarily need the whole pump assy. |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 6:22pm
| Hi Rob I took that apart also. It seems fine, primes like crazy. I mean if you pump it like there's no tomorrow then yeah you can make fuel leak out of it, or if you pump till its hard and then shove it in to lock you could squirt some fuel out. But I had that in every position while running and it seems as in new condition to me but maybe??? |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 7:37pm
|
OK Captain before you get mad and set the old 190 on fire you might try pulling the fuel shut off cable lever open a little more if she still surged, if it is not this then take the pump back to your re-builder and have him look at the gov spring assy.
Don ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 7:43pm
| Don I have run it for hours fiddlin with the shut off lever no changes till you get it almost all the way to cut off then she cuts off. I'm baffled still. I won't incinerate her yet. Close but not yet lol. |
Posted By: Russ SCPA
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 8:01pm
| I could be way off here, but on that filter set up there is a smaller rubber ring around the "threads", is that rubber washer in place and in good condition? I had 1 rip once, liked to have made me pull my hair out. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 8:30pm
Hmmm... that's very strange. Have you done anything to the engine... rings... pistons... sleeves... head? How's the oil level been? is it loosing, or gaining any? Does it smell 'diesely'... I'll admit that I've NEVER worked on an Allis diesel... I have worked on a few really small diesels, and some medium-sized in industrial scenarios, but most of my experience comes from teaching some locomotive fuel-control systems. Aside from the governor in your pump having some sort of problem, the only other thing that comes to mind, is that something OUTSIDE the program, is somehow offsetting what SHOULD be proper fueling. Is the TIMING adjustable on the injection pump? If so, is it possible on a D17D for the timing to be accidentally set advanced or retarded? |
captaindana wrote:Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 8:45pm
| bite the bullet, pull the pump and send it back. It sounds like youve covered all the bases. Ive been around lots of those engine and inj pump combinations-surging was usually the pump, you need to have that checked again. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 9:37pm
| I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH SKIPWELTE,YOU ARE CHASING AN INJECTION PUMP ISSUE.GET THE PUMP AND INJECTORS RUN AGAIN..... |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 11:02pm
| I try a different filter, not too expensive and easy enough to do. Sometimes filters will leak air, just a thought, Trev. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 12:29am
|
You said if you cracked #5 line it went away correct? Try switching injectors and see if it follows the injector, its worth a shot. Also, I don't have any thing with a 301 but what do they use for return lines? If they are rubber between each injector replace them. If you have not replaced any rubber parts of any of the fuel lines do so. Another thing you need to do is find a way to work it hard, and get it hot. Sitting 27 years it needs the carbon burnt out of the valves and rings. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 12:54am
| Bought our XT in 76 and following spring it dumped fuel into the crankcase... had the pump rebuilt and tractor never ran exactly right after that. Some times smoke some times not... sometimes she would labor and mostly not... 33 years later the seal let go inside from the plastic govenor ring disintegrating and plugging return line check ball... Pump repairman says... Who ever set this pump up had set the adjustments way off, way off.... Put a better turbo on and the rebuilt pump and injectors and now crackles to life when warm... engine needs to be rebuilt. Sure wish I had removed that pump 33 years ago and had the pump set right. GRRR ... Rebuilders can screw up. |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 6:23am
|
Dana there are alot of good suggestions here.....but I am afraid to say that I think the pump is going to have to come back off and go back to the rebuilder.
One thing I might suggest is unhook the shut off cable and throttle rod
JB weld a fitting in the bottom of a gallon jug and make yourself a temp tank. Fill it 1/2 full of fuel and put the inj pump return line in the top of the jug. Run the tractor off this temp tank whil working throttle and shut-off by hand
This test eliminates all lines, linkages, and filters on the tractor...if the surge is still there you know its in the pump.
If the surge is gone you know you have a problem on the tractor BESDIES the pump
Thats what I would do....want to elminate all possiblities before condemming the pump ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Matt MN
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 8:22am
|
I would think 2 options, I have had this same problem on my 180 these 2 thing fixed it. 1 the primer pump is letting it suck air in. How does it start? crank a long time? 2 the governor ring in the pump is shot. send it back to the repair man have him go through it again. ------------- Unless your are the lead horse the scenery never changes!! |