426 D3500 engine problems
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45520
Printed Date: 18 Jul 2025 at 2:43pm
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Topic: 426 D3500 engine problems
Posted By: jbdairy
Subject: 426 D3500 engine problems
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:37pm
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Hello: I have a Allis 426 D3500 series power unit mounted to a Vertical TMR feed mixer about 2 weeks ago When it starts working hard it looks like a super stock tractor in how much black smoke come out and dies. It also starts hard even plugged in, it fires right up on two cylinders and takes 10-20 seconds before all fire. Once running it runs smooth with no smoke or no miss and could start mixer at idle even when loaded. We removed air cleaner and muffler, turbo had NO boost REPLACED WITH NEW TURBO still has no boost, we had pump and injectors check by trusted diesel shop all withing specs. Timing was correct. removed exhaust manifold no blockage, valve train all have clearance, open good and none stuck. The only thing we are down to is compression is a consistent 260 psi on 5 cylinders and 235 on remaining one. I can not find what it should be.Even if low How would that affect the turbo boost once running? A gas engine with a turbo has much less compression than that. I have a 7040 with same engine and a UNI with same both start and run great. Looking for any ideas |
Replies:
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:40pm
| Is the low one #5? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:04pm
| You haven't said what the blow-by hose looks like for fumes. Did this come on it all of a sudden???? You have't given an indication as to what age/year the engine is or what style/brand injection pump it has. Even with the intake manifold gasket blown (which it could be) you still should have SOME boost, unless you're using a gauge larger than 30 psi. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 9:33pm
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You didn't say how you was checking boost. I would say the reason for all the black smoke was the first turbo locked up. Take the intake hose off and see if wheel is turning.
MACK
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Posted By: CALEBnOK
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 9:57pm
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If it is intercooled then the cooler could be stopped up. Its getting fuel obviously by the black smoke but i would still look to where your taking boost pressure from and the turbo you put on is identical to the old one? |
Posted By: jbdairy
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 6:43am
| The low one is # 2 |
Posted By: jbdairy
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 6:54am
| Thanks for the input but we removed air cleaner and piping completely so turbo is to open air, there is normal blow by nothing excessive and average oil pressure, I can see turbo running so it is not locked up both old and new turbo spin free with no obvious physical problems, engine runs smooth and to full RPM at no load or even half load with no smoke, we took the boost or lack of, readings at the 1/8" plug for starting fluid. it has about 6"-10" VACUUM from idle to wide open and I'm watching the turbo spinning? on My 7040 it is about 1" pressure at idle and 6-7 at full throttle. Still looking for compression PSI ? |
Posted By: leoversteeg11
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 7:22am
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I have a 7080 on my vertical feed mixer,twin screw, and at times it has its hands full running that thing.It's hard work! I'm not saying you don't have a problem,just letting non farmers know. |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 8:46am
Well, Its either to much fuel or not enough air. You are checking for boost in the right spot, but you need to check it with the engine under a load. A turbocharger will not create boost unless there is a load on the engine. ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
jbdairy wrote:Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 1:02pm
| If you are showing a vacum there is a restriction between turbo and air intake. A diesel should not have a vacum. MACK |
Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 2:29pm
| May not help you, but I had the spring inside an air inlet hose from the air cleaner to the manifold on a naturally aspirated Perkins. When the load got too great the hose would collapse and you had to almost stop to get the engine to come back to fuel rpm and boy, was there smoke behind you! Took me a pump and injector overhaul and a set of new air filters and fuel filter and I can't remember all until I happened to be sitting in the pickup when it went by and started smoking that I was at just the right angle to see the air hose completely collapsed to figure out the problem... |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 2:31pm
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sounds like a plug fell out of the intake manifold, or even exhaust manifold. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: MI8050
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 3:51pm
| How about a plugged vent from fuel source? |
Posted By: jbdairy
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 9:22pm
| Thanks for all the input but pretty much EVERY thought or suggestion that came up was already looked into before I posted the first time, will be starting from square one Wed and do a step by step proses of elimination AGAIN will update when I find the cause |
Posted By: Travis(NE)
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:49pm
| As Mack said a diesel should not have a vacuum at any time unless the intake system is restricted. Start by checking from the turbo compressor outlet to the manifold. |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:52pm
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Sounds like a prankster put a rag or something in the tube between the turbo and intake manifold. If innercooled, it could of been sucked in and laying on the innercooler coils and blocking air flow. Just a late night thought. Steve
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Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:55pm
| Id go along with Ed, Ive had the big plug come out of intake manifold and dump all the turbo boost. It sounds to me like you are loosing your boost somewhere. Aint no easy answer on this one, let us know what you find. HTH |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:56pm
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Beat me to it Travis Steve
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Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 11:05pm
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If it has a roosa pump, what you describe sounds like a fuel restriction, I know you said it smoked, but with the roosa pump if you have a restriction it will reduce your transfer pump pressure enough to affect the timing advance and it will smoke and have no power, because of late timing,[no timing advance movement] Make sure you have good solid flow to the filters, an air leak will cause the same symtoms. A low pressure electric pump will also help, 5-7 psi max. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 5:18am
| A rag would not make it through the turbo. MACK |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 6:30am
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It takes one major item to make boost. I a hot expanding exhaust gas steam, yes you need other things like a turbo, and sealed piping, but those have apparently been eliminated. Low compression will indirectly affect boost, but if the engine can run, you can build boost. Every one of these ideas is great, and all are valid, but I am really starting to think PUMP as Kevin stated, assuming all intake pathways are free and clear, and the filter has been changed, which it sounds like JB has pulled his hair out doing. The only thing left is pump or timing. Without good advance, and good fuel delivery you will get little to no heat in the exhaust, and therefor no energy to drive the turbo and create boost. I do agree that it seems odd that a vacuum is present, but when we start our 7060s they have a lot of hours on them, at idle they too draw a vacuum, my guess is because of the hours on them, and it's the same engine. I think the only thing left is to suggest that the pump just isn't putting out the fuel that it should, and since it seems to be related to RMPs and load, I am afraid it's that time. Since it starts on two cylinders, and blubbers along for 20-30 seconds and the hard start. But before you have it inspected again, or rebuilt, I completely agree with Kevin, check all of your fuel flow, i.e. you would think black smoke means too much fuel and no air, but I have seen on other engines a dirty or near completely plugged fuel filter will do the exact same thing, and both those engines both allis 2900s had roosa pumps on them, so really worth a second look into the fuel system. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: jbdairy
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 6:53am
| Thanks for everyone's input we had every intake,exhaust, fuel part off AGAIN and inspected more than once, engine actually looked very clean. We got the pump and injectors back from the shop they tested all within specs, reassembled and works fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no clue why? we didn't change a thing but when it was acting strange we definitely had No boost and a vacuum on the intake at any RPM even as I'm watching the turbo spinning and yes there was NO blockage at any time in any intake or exhaust piping. I'll say it was Gremlins no other explanation. So if anyone is in need of my old used RaJay Turbo but no guarantee on it. I think I bought the last NOS one from a dealer in Min. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 11:06am
| Sounds like you and I are blessed with the same fortune. |
Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 3:50pm
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"Pump tested within specs",maybe!
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2012 at 1:11pm
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2012 at 2:05pm
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JB welcome to the forum.
just curious, What brand mixer are you using? can you post a pic?
Glad you got her running right.
Dave ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |