Carb floats question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42179
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Carb floats question
Posted By: Iowa_Allis
Subject: Carb floats question
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 12:07pm
|
I'm looking for outside opinions just to make sure I'm not overlooking anything. I bought a WD 45 that ran fine but had a rusty tank. Eventually I had issues with rust clogging the sediment bowl and carb. I cleaned out the tank but did not seal it. I went with advice from here and added a screen at the sediment bowl inlet, and also dropped a cow magnet in the bottom of the tank to help catch rust. The carb needed a rebuild so I had a local shop take care of that for me. The tractor started up and idled fine when I put the rebuilt carb on, but after about 5 minutes started to sputter like it was starving for gas. It would idle for a bit, then stumble, then idle fine, etc. Sounded to me like it was sucking the bowl dry, and when it would stumble enough gas would make it's way in to let it idle for a bit again. So, I took the carb back off, cleaned it out, and installed a new gas line and in-line filter. I pulled the drain plug from the carb to see if it was getting gas and nothing came out. I tapped the side of the carb with my wrench a couple times and gas started to flow. I put the plug back in and started the tractor. It idled perfect, and sounded great when I would crack the throttle open after it warmed up a little (even did the backfire like it should when I dropped the throttle back to idle). Then after awhile it started to do the sputtering/stumbling thing again. I'm thinking that my issue now is the float sticking. Is there any way to correct this without just using the "trial and error" method of adjusting the float and putting it back on to see if it works? The float does "float", but I think it is sometimes sticking in both the up and down positions.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I know I'm going to hear from the "get rid of that in-line filter" crowd, LOL, but it's going to be very hard to convince me that it is affecting the way the tractor runs, especially when it ran so well the first 5-10 minutes after I started it.
Thanks.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Boogerowen
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 12:54pm
|
The only thing that is going to help (stop) this problem is for you to remove the tank and have the crud removed from the inside and relined inside, or you will be having the same problem from now on. ( I know this from EXPERIENCE ) GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!
|
Posted By: wdforty5
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 12:59pm
|
Your tractor must be mines brother :)
It would do the same thing and yep ya tap it on the side of the bowl and she runs fine. Well I finally took mine off, took it apart, and found the float was sticking both ways. I sprayed a whole can of carbcleaner through every nook and cranny and really focused on the float valve/needle. It seems to run better now, and I also have an inline filter with no screen in the bowl. I need to take the tank off and seal it, but for now shes purrin like she should.
|
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 1:04pm
|
There was 5 minutes of fuel for idling in the bowl. The in line filter IS a factor in the fuel starvation but not the only factor. The line is probably nearly filled with varnish and rust. The carburetor inlet screen is suspect. A warped float can drag on the side of the float bowl and stick everywhere. A rubber tipped float needle can stick closed. A float needle without the rubber sometimes doesn't seal well. The in line filter can be plugged by water and rust. There can be something solid sucked over the fuel inlet at the gas tank. The gas tank cap can be failing to vent (many new caps don't have the necessary vents) though it should run longer than 5 minutes when the gas cap isn't venting. You can check for fuel starvation, if it recovers momentarily from the rough running if you pull the choke on that's a good indication. Dragging floats and sticking needles sometimes respond to tapping the side of the float bowl. Dragging floats sometimes leave marks inside the float bowl. I like to check for proper float and needle operation with the bottom of the carburetor by blowing into the fuel inlet (by mouth, not much pressure) and by lowering and raising the float to see the low pressure opens the needle and gently raising the float shuts off completely. You might want to modify the sediment bowl connection to the tank with a tube to leave some gas in the tank (maybe a quarter inch) and with a screen above that to make an inlet somewhat more resistant to floating debris. Your cattle magnet could have settled over the inlet blocking flow. Common in line filters are used in systems with 3 to 8 psi pumps with carburetors or 30 to 40 psi pumps with fuel injection. Gravity has no where near that pressure. There are gravity rated in line filters, but not at wallyworld. Gerald J. |
Posted By: wdforty5
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 6:18pm
| You can Pick up a gravity rated in-line filter at most auto parts store. I have absolutely NO fuel starvation using it. They cost all of $2.50 at a local Napa. |
Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 6:24pm
|
Yep, the NAPA on my B works fine. I don't remember what the part number is off the top of my head. It was really reasonable. ------------- 1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45 |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 6:52pm
|
I would put a new sediment bowl and line from the bowl to the carb. I had a similar problem with my CA. I was constantly having to blow debris out of it. I had put a new complete bowl on it, but the hard crusty stuff left from old gas in the line was loosening and plugging the carb. I fabbed a new line and haven't had to do anything to it in almost 15 years now. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Scott(SC)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 6:58pm
|
I got tired of cleaning out the tank on my D14. I drained the gas, removed the sediment bowl and flushed the tank with the garden hose several times. After draining the water and reassembling, I had to empty water collected in the bowl several times. I also started putting a cup of used oil in every 5 gallons of gas. Been a year and a half and haven't had any more issue with the fuel. |
Posted By: RickUP
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 7:03pm
| The most popular allis guy around here told me the 45 you have there will act up if the sediment bowl has just little dirt in it. The advice you have so far is all correct to me. But the one who said clean your tank is where i would start. |
Posted By: Iowa_Allis
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 7:25pm
|
Thanks for all the replies everyone. This really is a great place for info. When I posted I was at work and didn't have a lot of time, and left some info out. Sorry about that. I did get the inline filter from NAPA, and told them what it was for. As far as I know it's a gravity filter, and when I pull the line from the carb and open the valve I get really good constant flow. The old factory line was getting built up with rust (high cholesterol I call it) and I think I have better flow now. I'm not a mechanic, (electrician by trade) but I honestly think that my problem now is the float sticking. The guy that put the rebuild kit in for me is a well known tractor mechanic and a family friend. I'm 100% sure what he did is right, but I did not buy a new float kit. Just the basic carb rebuild kit. What leads me to the float is the fact that when I had the carb plug pulled out I had no flow until I tapped on the outside of the carb. I put the plug in and let it sit, and shortly after that I had gas leaking out of the carb. I started it and let it run, and it ran great. Then it started doing the run for awhile and stutter to catch up thing. Tomorrow night I'm going to pull the carb again and adjust the float to hopefully get it not to catch. This will be trial and error for me. Is there any way to tell if it's set right (not catching) before I put it all back together? Thanks again. |
Posted By: Scott(SC)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 7:37pm
| If you don't have the specs, you can set the float level with the upper section of the carb, when it's closed. You might check to see if there's any debris in the area between where the gas line connects and the seat. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 11:14pm
| Had the same problem recently with a 170. It was the rubber tipped needle that was sticking. Apparently some of those react with the 10% ethanol in the gas and get sticky. We tried three different needles and finally got an all metal one and that fixed it. |
Posted By: Wes (VA)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 11:26pm
| Was working on the neighbor's E Gleaner this fall.. rebuilt the carburetor for him, ran great for a while..made a pass across the field..would cough and sputter, die etc... Good flow to carb via electric fuel pump. Finally pulled the carburetor apart and took the little clip that holds the needle to the float OUT. I dont believe it was in there originally, but was in the kit..so I put it in. Ya got it, why not use it right?? wrong. To my knowledge it ran great after that. When ya put the top and bottom halves of carb back together..check for float binding by holding carb upright and blowing with your lungs in the inlet, then upside-down as well. Air should flow, then stop when upside-down. install screws without moving a thing! -Wes |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 11:49pm
|
Good test, Wes. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Iowa_Allis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 11:26am
|
Once again, thanks to all of you for the advice. I finally got a chance to pull the carb off yesterday afternoon and mess with it. I narrowed it down to the rubber tipped needle sticking. After messing with it for awhile, it ran great again. I'm guessing that after sitting for awhile it will stick again. I'm going to try to find a kit with an all metal needle. |
Posted By: Kip-Utah
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 11:53am
|
Next time it's apart try lightly lapping the needle and seat with some engine valve lapping compound or metal polish. Make sure to get all the lapping compound cleaned out when you're done. ------------- HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!! |
Posted By: d17brown
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 7:40pm
| take your sediment bowl out, put a coppper tube inside the bowl housing, make it about 1 inch above threads, then put back in tank, it will now suck gas and not dirt from bottom of tank |
Posted By: orange
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 8:00pm
|
who has metal needle and seats available for most carburators thanks Terry
|
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 8:49pm
Now water can lay in the bottom of tank and rust it out. I'd rather catch it in the sediment bowl, that's what it's for. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
d17brown wrote:Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 8:55pm
|
I found a wide assortment of float needles and seats in a marine and carburetion shop on South Broadway just south of St. Louis one time. I just took the old ones with me and he took them to the back room in reappeared in a few minutes with matching new ones. In theory a good NAPA might be able to do that too, but probably not in the real world. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Iowa_Allis
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2012 at 7:47pm
Well, I took Kip-Utah's advice and put some lapping material on the needle the next time I had it apart. It was running fine for awhile, and then went back to the same old issues. I kept getting good gas flow (every time I pulled the carb drain I had gas) and was really getting frustrated. Then, the next day at work it hit me. On the way home I stopped at NAPA and bought a cap, rotor, points, and condensor. I'd had the cap off before and it looked ok, but I thought I'd try changing everything out. When I got home I pulled everything off and that's when I noticed the points were almost completely burned off!  After I changed all that out and fired it up, it ran like a top. I've ran it about 8 hours pushing snow since, and haven't had a problem.  This tractor has been frustrating, but that just makes me like it more. I don't have a pic of it at work pushing snow, but here is one I took this summer by our shooting shack. I was using it to get firewood. Sorry for the blurry cell phone pic.  |
Posted By: Iowa_Allis
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2012 at 7:52pm
| And once again, thanks to everyone for all the advice. This site has been a great help! |