new wd 45 engine questions and more
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41858
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Topic: new wd 45 engine questions and more
Posted By: jb from md
Subject: new wd 45 engine questions and more
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 8:49pm
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my brother in law bought a wd45 from a friends dad who has had this tractor for more than twenty years and we have a few questions. it has been untouched since he has owned it and he said as far as he knows its original. first it looks like a 45 engine but instead of the spin on oil filter it has a canister style filter on it. secondly it has a mag on it instead if a distributor. someone told him it was a combine engine but i dont know . is it possible that it came this way?? it runs very good and is really a nice complete tractor except the pin style drawbar (he wants to switch to s-c) and bald front tires. i thought it was a deal for $550. as always, thanks for any input...Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:01pm
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I don't think he has a 45. All 45's came with distributor ignition as far as I know and all had the Snap Couple hitch. What he has is a WD with the wrong decals. Look at the right side of the engine where the oil filter is. If there is a plate bolted to the block covering the push rods, it is a WD block. Look at the tractor number stamped on the left side of the back of the differential. 146607 and up would be a WD45, anything below that is a WD. Still would be a deal for $550. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:02pm
| What's the serial number of this tractor? The "no snap coupler" puzzles me, unless someone intentionally changed it. The oil filter type *might* have been changed. I've never been a fan of the original type of filtration system. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:03pm
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Sounds like your brother in law has a WD not a WD45. Post a photo of the right side of the engine and one of the Ser # it's on the back left side of the rear end just below the left brake cover.Forgot to say $550. for a good running WD is a deal.
Don ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:08pm
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You guys post faster that me. lol
Don ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:22pm
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i cant remember the serial number but when he was thinking about buying it we looked the number up here and its supposed to be a 45 . it doesnt have the plate bolted to the side of the engine .it looks just like the engines in both my 45's except the filter and mag. i know this can go both ways but it has the curved shifter too. its at the farm now ill try to get some pics this weekend...Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:30pm
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The curved shifters came out with the late WD's so that doesn't make it a 45. Maybe it was put together from a few different tractors. Get us a few pictures of the right side of the engine and get the serial number to post here. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:31pm
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Look at the engine ser# too.
Might be a Leroy engine. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:46pm
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ill get the serial number and some pics . wheres the engine number? i know the shifter doesnt matter, im just trying to give you guys all the info i can until i get the serial and engine numbers. is it possible that it didnt come with s-c.? was it standard or optional?..Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 9:53pm
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Engine # is on the left side of block just below and back from the carb. behind the air in take hose.
Don ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: m16ty
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 10:01pm
| Just about anything can be changed on these tractors as old as they are getting. I've put together several tractors from parts I've had lying around myself. Sometimes the only real way to know what you have is to pull the head and measure the stroke. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2011 at 11:21pm
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I was also thinking it could be a LeRoi Block, I got a couple in the shed and I know they have canister style oil filters. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 5:42am
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SC was standard equipment from WD146607 on. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dave (Mid-MI)
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 8:45am
| According to Norm Swinford, snap coupler didn't become standard equipment until serial no. 151381, so there is the possibility of a WD-45 or two out there somewhere with factory pin hitches. It is possible that SC was made standard equipment because nobody was buying a new tractor without it, but there could be a few out there. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 9:21am
| My Dad's WD45 had the four bolt wide front axle support and didn't have snap-coupler on it until he bought a 70 series 3 x 16" plow. |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 10:51am
| I agree with DrAllis. I have a'53 45 with a 3 bolt frt end. The manual I got with the tractor had the instruction sheet in it that showed how to install the snap coupler which was installed by the dealer. |
Posted By: deereequipment1
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 1:03pm
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the canister filter sounds just like Leroi. I had one.
Measure the height of the head. if its 4", its "probably" a 226 (WD45 engine). If its 3", then look at the right side of the block. If the right side looks like a casted block, its probably a Leroi. If that right side is a steel plate about 6" by 14" (guessing on the size), then its a 201 WD engine. The Leroi's I think have 4" and 3" heads, so it could be a 226 Leroi or a 201 Leroi. Let us know what you find out. ------------- Raised on a CA,WD,D10 & D15. Now, proudly own and pull a WD45 high crop, WD45, WC, also own a D-10, D-12, G and a CA. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 2:51pm
| As I understand it, Allis Chalmers used LeRoi engines in some of their tractors in the 1930s. Can one of you engine experts fill me in... are the LeRoi 201 and 226 engines virtually identical to those Allis Chalmers engines? Are the horsepower ratings the same? Is the LeRoi 226 the same as the power crater 226? I'm sure the LeRoi and Allis Chalmers engines will bolt onto each other's bellhousings, but are there any substantial differences? |
Posted By: deereequipment1
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:10pm
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I'm not too sure about the Leroi's.
All I know is what I figured out when I bought a WD45, and it DIDN'T have the 226 engine.
It had the 201 Leroi, and when Dyno'd, it had very little horsepower. I have heard that there is a Leroi 226, but i haven't seen it. I also heard that some of those engines were used in Air Compressors, and they turned up alot more RPM's than the Allis engines did. I also think that some of the internal parts are interchangeable, but some of the bearings might be specific. Definitely do your research before you do any internal work. Good luck. ------------- Raised on a CA,WD,D10 & D15. Now, proudly own and pull a WD45 high crop, WD45, WC, also own a D-10, D-12, G and a CA. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 9:16pm
| I did a bit of goggling and it seems those LeRoi engines have the combustion chamber in the head. The pistons are a bit taller. Allis Chalmers engines have the combustion chamber in the cylinder. From this it can probably be said that the worst thing you'd want to do, powerwise, is to put A/C engine pistons in a LeRoi engine. Now putting LeRoi pistons in an A/C engine might give you considerably more compression and horsepower. Perhaps too much compression? |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 9:19pm
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im going to the farm first thing in the morning with a pen and paper and a camera. it will be late evening before i get the info up...maybe then we'll have some answers...by the way thanks for all the replies..Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 10:13pm
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Allis started using the "Tall" head on the WD's in mid 1951. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2011 at 8:15pm
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here are the pictures of the tractor. serial number 175252. i compared this one to my 1955 wd45 side by side and they are identical except the mag,carb,oil filter and the head is different. the head off the subject is the top pic the 1955 wd45 is the pic below. the difference is the shape of the head at the spark plug. it has a zenith carb. there is no plate on the side of the engine. there are numbers on the block but i didnt have anything to scratch the peeling paint off with...Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: deereequipment1
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2011 at 8:21pm
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try posting the pics again.
Where the heck is Keymar??
------------- Raised on a CA,WD,D10 & D15. Now, proudly own and pull a WD45 high crop, WD45, WC, also own a D-10, D-12, G and a CA. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2011 at 8:25pm
i had to make room for the pics here they are     ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2011 at 8:28pm
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i had to delete pics so i could post these...keymar is 10 miles west of westminster and 20 miles north of frederick ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: deereequipment1
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 7:00am
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without knowing the actual height of your head (the first one pictured) it looks to be 3" tall. You should measure it to be sure. that "looks" to be the 201 Leroi engine. Its got the short head, so it is most likely to be the 201 cu in engine. Allis put the 4 inch head on a few 201's, but I pretty sure they never put the 3" head on the 226 cu in block. Since it appears to be the 201 cu in engine, and it doesn't have that large plate on the RS of the block, I'd say you have a Leroi engine. The Leroi that I had come across, had the same filter canister (which if you need the filter, its the same that is in a FORD 8N, so ask for that in a parts store). Mine had a distributor, not the magneto, and that looks to be the only difference. Also, i am curious to knwo about your tractor, on the Left side top, is the manifold that goes up to the upper radiator hose......does it have a "large bump" in the manifold that comes apart, for a thermostat? the tractor I had didn't have a thermostat at all!!! The manifold covered the two ports (some only cover 1 port in the head), and it was just a straight throat to the radiator hose. No thermostat housing. Thanks for the photos of your tractor.------------- Raised on a CA,WD,D10 & D15. Now, proudly own and pull a WD45 high crop, WD45, WC, also own a D-10, D-12, G and a CA. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 8:09am
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Looks like a LeRoi with the short head so it might be a 201.
If you look at the spark plug hole it is bigger than a WD45 head and the plug is seated higher in the head.
This engine is the same looking but not the same as the 226 and most parts are NOT the same inside.
Don
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 9:39am
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so if this is in fact a 201 leroi engine, first, it is possible that this engine came in this tractor from the factory? second, are parts available still as far as rebuild kits? third, why would they use different engines in these tractors? last, what would the horsepower be on this engine . im still wondering why it has a mag and not a distributor? we talked to the man again that he bought this tractor from and he said he has been around this tractor for many years before he bought it, and he had it for twenty years or so and swears it came this way but who knows...thanks for the input on this...Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 12:29pm
| Have you found the serial number behind the carb air inlet hose????? an AC226 s/n would be like 45-XXXXX.........an AC201 sn would be WD-XXXXXX. No, it never came from West Allis with a LeRoi engine in it. |
Posted By: jb from md
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 8:37pm
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There is no numbers on the left side of the engine at all it almost looks like there was a repair done where the serial number would have been behind the hose from the breather to the carb. i can see where it would be by looking at my wd45. the top water manifold does not have the thermostat and covers both ports in the head. Also i measured the head and it measures 4 inches . the same as my 45. thanks for the help trying to figure out what it is. i guess we wont find out for sure unless we need to go inside then we measure...i guess some where along the lines some thing was changed around. it will sure work for what he needs it for...Jb ------------- 8050 FWA, 190XT, 185, Styled wc, Unstyled wc, (2)C, (2)WD45NF, WD45WF, WD,416h, 716h, 312h, 8070 pedal. |