Round Hay Baler question
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Topic: Round Hay Baler question
Posted By: MacC
Subject: Round Hay Baler question
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 11:26am
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Due to not having any rain, we did not have any hay to bale this year. I have always used square balers. No experience with round balers. We recently bought round bales of hay from a local broker. Hay came from Mississippi. The bales looked fresh until the outer layer came off. The inside is a different type grass, packed very tight, different color, different smell. Didn't look like it came from the same pasture.
My question is, is it possible to load a round baler with an old round bale and put a fresh wrapping of grass on the outside?
Something just doesn't seem right here.
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Replies:
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 12:15pm
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I don't think that would be easy. It is possible that he baled up some crappy hay to a point and then finished the bale by wrapping it in better looking stuff from another part of the field. You never know what them hay jockeys are selling. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: KD in SE Ks
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 2:59pm
| I agree with AllisFreak. If you have a county agent maybe they could tell you more about what you have. Hope it turns out for you. |
Posted By: stray
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 4:52pm
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I've also seen hay was baled a little wet and the outter layer would go ahead and dry and look good but when you get in side it is molded. ------------- 1969 190XT series 3 |
Posted By: jminpa
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 5:30pm
| Yes he could of baled something before and then baled good grass later. The dairy I used to work on the boss baled straw and about a month later baled some grass hay and the first bale was about 1/2 straw 1/2 hay. |
Posted By: m16ty
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 6:41pm
| Yes, you could "rap" bad hay with good hay if you wanted to. It would be a lot of trouble to do this with several bales though. Probably more time consuming than it's worth if you were doing it on purpose. I could see maybe one or two bales like this but not a whole load. |
Posted By: Gary IN
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 6:43pm
| Baled wet. Done it to myself before. Had cures on outside 4 in and inside heats up, don't mold it just heats and dries out hard as a rock. Gary IN |
Posted By: m16ty
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 10:01pm
That's kind of what I was thinking. I've never rolled any wet hay but I could see it doing that. Granddad always used to say "you'll get screwed on buying hay worse than anything else". This is because it can look great on the outside and be total junk. I won't buy hay unless I know the field it came out of and when it was cut. A lot of the local hay sellers around here get behind and won't cut the hay until it's way past maturity= junk. |
Gary IN wrote:Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 3:18am
| well...whatever ya do...don't...uh...i had a round baler, but no mower to mow with, so i used a stalk shredder, then raked it, then baled it...well the dude that bought the bales....cut the twine, and the bale exploded! all around him, and on him! he said it was great grass hay...but asked how i got it so fluffy!!! lol |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 9:35am
| How big were the bales and how much were they? |
Posted By: MacC
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 11:00am
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The bales are 5 X 5 and weigh 1000 - 1200 lbs. Cost is $100 each. If the bales had not cost so much, I wouldn't have a problem. At $100 per bale, I expect to get better hay. A lot of the cost is trucking fees with some middle-man profit added in. Hay from the interior part of the bale just looks old, matted together and packed tight as if it has been wet.
Things wouldn't look out of the ordinary if it was the same type grass all the way thru, but it is as different as daylight and dark.
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Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 3:06pm
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I hate to say it but I know there were some jockeys taking advantage of the Texas drought. It's bad enough they screwed you on the price but then it's crap hay besides. Talk about kicking someone when they're down. I hope it all works out for you. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: bakwoodsfarm
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 6:09pm
| ITS PEOPLE LIKE THAT THAT MAKE IT HARD ON THE HONEST HAY PRODUCER. I only bale round bales when the field is junk, but I get junk price for it($10-15/bale for 6x6) |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 6:25pm
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Hay baled round, will be packed harder in the center than the traditional square bale. But as to why the color change and the feed quality, I think just about everyobody has hit it on the head. Baled too wet, center got hot, but not hot enough to burn. My guess is a lot of people don't realy know when to put up hay, the moisture needs to be low, really low, or this will happen, simply feeling it by hand and saying ya it's dry doesn't work well unless you put up a lot of hay. Dad and I used to custome hay, and we always had a moisture meter in every tractor we baled with, and both our pickups. There were times I would jump out gab a handful, and swear it was ready, but a quick check with the meter, still showed too much moisture. Some of our customers demanded that we cut then 3 days later bale no matter the weather or the drying conditions. Most of the time, that hay was smoking a coulpe days later. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 8:26pm
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where are you in texas? i am working this week in south Houston. Are you feeding horses or cattle ? Scott ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: MacC
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 4:41am
| Scott, we are about 3 1/2 hours NE of Houston. About 25 miles north of Nacogdoches. We are feeding horses (Quarterhorses and Paints) and Mammoth donkeys. |
Posted By: Dannyhtn
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 4:02pm
| Mac, I had trouble here in SW TN making good hay this year and it was even drier down through MS. Some of my bales look like they have growth rings due to the different grass from diff parts of fields. Our dry and wet periods made it hard to get into the hay with slow grass growth early due to dryness, followed by late spring flooding, then a very dry summer with light rains timed just right to keep you out of the hay. When conditions allowed haying, windrows were so thin you covered a lot of ground to make a roll, which creates bands of different grass in the same roll. Weeds would outgrow the grass when rain did come and the grass was so thick it could barely be cut and baled and the quality suffered. My cows will completely clean up one bale and not even nibble at the center of the next and they came off the same field. Also, due to lower bale production, people were cutting fields that had not been used for hay production for years due to lack of need or because the fields were generally too wet to put equipment on. It would be very diffiicult to over wrap a roll for deceptive sales but some of the big farm operations can do it. A nearby farm has a hay barn big enough to re- bale but they usually do it from round to square. There is better money in square bales here. They could rebale round to round with the best un-rolled bales placed to give a deceptive wrap but it would still be hard even with the better facilities, equipment, and manpower. I have some bales I intended to try selling to the drought states but did not pursue it because the quality dropped so much this year over past ones. |
Posted By: bakwoodsfarm
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:37pm
| orangeblood, I think that was the most valued piece of equipment, I have a moisture tester mounted on the baler and a hand-held probe to verify with. The humidity in NC keeps us from baling on many days. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 6:38pm
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Around here the horse owners won't feed round bales, too picky as to mold and fungus that develops in them and the worry on founder. They all buy up the square bales our renter puts up every year, mostly Broam/Timothy mix. Our renter has sold all his 'extra' bales and has been turning away buyers for the best of a month now. |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 6:47pm
In central Nebraska where the average summer day is around 95 degrees, and 98% humidity, it takes a decent amount of time to get the hay dry assuming no rain. It wasn't always that way. Dad says that when he was younger the humidity was never as bad as it is these days. The old 3 day rule worked pretty well back then, but not always the case these days, if you get a good breeze then you are probably ok, but if not, it may take a week or more to dry it down. On a few ocasions, with no rain, the new hay was starting to grow through the winrow, before it was dry enough. That was when you sweated the decision to turn it with a rake or not, for fear of rain, or high winds would ruin the customer's crop.
I even remember when you cut grass in the morning, not in the widrow, and by late afternoon you could rake it, and bale an hour later, just doesn't happen much anymore, with the higher humidity. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 7:35pm
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Up here in Minnesota it rains in June every 2 1/2 days it seems. It will be ever so close to being ready to bale but you have to hold off until tomorrow, and sure as heck it will rain overnite. Then around the fourth of July the faucet turns off and the second crop burns up. Guess I better not complain though, I've had pretty good luck. Square bales most definately bring better money. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: Dannyhtn
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 7:40pm
| Years ago my dad & I just square baled up on the hills and never had much problems baling dry hay. Sometimes had to flip it if got rained on but that was not often. Most of my hay is in creek bottoms now and I have to tedder it even in dry summers. The humidity is higher and wind lower. This year had frequent minor rain that caused dense fog at night. I baled many days this summer until the fog pushed me out but it was really cool at dusk to only see the upper part of the 190xt surrounded by the top part of the bales. In the moonlight it looked like it was surrounded by turtles. |
Posted By: stray
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 8:45pm
Mold and some fungus don't cause a horse to founder, it will cause them to colic. And when a horse colics they will lay down and roll. When they roll with colic there is a chance of them twisting their intestine and killing them. When I was in high school dad lost a nice stud horse to colic from molded grain. He rented a place to keep the stud horse at and there was a little barn with 3 stalls on it. He keep the grain in a small freezer with a latch on it, but he just laid the empty sacks on the floor. One day the horse got into that stall and we guess that there was just enough grain left to mold and he ate that and ended up dieing. I remember being relieved that dad was the last one to feed and check on him, he couldn't blame me. As far as foundering, a horse can founder on anything that they eat a whole lot more than they are use to. ------------- 1969 190XT series 3 |
Posted By: m16ty
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 9:59pm
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Putting up good hay is almost an art with a lot of luck involved. More times than not I find myself on the first cutting standing at the edge of the field, looking at the windrows that are a little damp, and a storm cloud a brewing. Most of the time I'll go ahead and bale it (square). Never had a problem with mold but I think square bales can get more air than rounds and aren't as bad about going bad. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 10:28pm
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mac ,We had a good season in east tn but I don't have what i would call horse quality hay. I did square bale some but I use these for weening or bottle fed calves. I do have mixed grass round bales that are one year old that would keep a cow from starving but would not be good for horses. If anyone on here needed some a few rolls to keep from selling their herd I would try to help them out. I would want to talk direct to the farmer with no middle man or broker. I'm sorry you had this bad experience. this makes me wonder if the guy that sold you this hay would be willing to pay the same amount for the same hay if he had a dry year. Scott ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 8:03am
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One thing I think we are all forgetting is the guy who rolled the hay probably had nothing to do with the price, or the quality you received. This is my guess as to how this happened.
the Hay broker, goes out and drive around an area where there is hay, he sees this hay, asked the farmer, "Is it for sale," farmer says "ya, but it's not the best quality. I can't charge full price for it, so I would take $35.00 a bale" Broker does his magic, because he knows you won't be able to do anything about it on your end.
The other senario is that farmer had it listed for sale, and was still honest on his end.
I don't want to fault the farmer, and I want to give the benifit of the dought to the brocker as well. The broker probably just got "hay" to your area. yes there are a million qualities of hay, when we grind for cattle feed, we mix good bad, and all kinds of hay, yes horses need better hay. He may have thought the bales wer ok for horses to keep them alive, but not the top of the line best.
I do think the small squares tend to breath better, and therfore keep better. The big 6' rolls and now the big 4' squares just haul better, with less manpower. When you are running a 400 head cattle operation or more, you just can't buy your hay in small squares. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |