problems with B hydraulics
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39501
Printed Date: 08 Aug 2025 at 12:54am
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Topic: problems with B hydraulics
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Subject: problems with B hydraulics
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 12:51pm
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reading somewhere I learned I should be able to leave pto engaged to run hydraulics, and there should be 3 positions; up, hold, and down? is this correct?
no matter which position or spot it is in it only goes up, so i just disengage the pto and it goes down, but very slow, sometimes have to get off tractor and stand on the plow.
I just changed the fluid a few hours ago, we used tractor on elevator for cob corn, ran up 23 loads of cob corn with it.
new fluid did not help, I assume something is broken....spring maybe? where can i get parts? anyone have an idea where i can get a parts breakdown or repair book?
Also need factory lever for my B hydraulics.
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Replies:
Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 12:53pm
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Nothing broken, just badly adjusted. I'll try to get something typed up when I get a break in a bit if no one else does first. If you have a manual, it's all there. JimD ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 9:52pm
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what did you use for fluid?
are you sure that the lever is connected properly at the pump? It should sit in the hold position, and when pulled up it should spring back to the hold position. When pushed all of the way down, almost to the fender support angle, it should stay down, I have seen some out of adjustment linkages and some that had to be altered when they had the low seat on them. Bob
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Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 10:43am
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sae 30, couldnt find 20.
does not spring back at all, like i said it goes up in any position
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Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 4:37pm
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Most of us us Hydra-trans fluid. Works for both transmissions and hydraulics. 30 sae should be ok.
Look at where the rod connects to the pump valve. There are 2 disks and a spring. The rod connects to 1 disk and if it is connected with the disk in the wrong rotation it will not work right. Disconnect the rod and play with the disk. I will have to look at 1 of my B's to give you further instructions as to how if hooks up. I think the connection point is at the bottom to the front of center, this allows you to pull up and load the spring and push down with no spring pressure. Bob
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Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 10:50pm
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i have tried both discs in all directions and positoins, but only goes up. I do not have any linkage, and would be interested if anyone has a setup, I will take a pic in the morning of what I have.
Also pics of how it is set up on your B would be great.
thanks
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Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 9:15pm
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any help or advice? ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: jccleav
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 9:30am
In my book it tell how to take the pump apart and put it back together. The local agco dealer told my not to do it because mine was working. One little opps and you have to start over. It MIGHT be worth a try. To be it sounds like the valve is stuck.
Looking to the parts breakout there is a lowering rate control screw. Min is turned all the way out. It controls how much the plates can move to lower. Hope this helps some. ------------- The joy is in the journey. AC "B" and "WD" and "C" |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 4:04pm
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Still looking for help. Hydraulics are strong going up. Just don't go down? Looking for a lil help before I take the pump off and start tearing into it. My snow plow is all done, so now I need the hydraulics working correctly. ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 6:36pm
| JC put a breakdow drawing in the post above. you will need to take it apart clean the passageways , spring and checkballs. check the seats in the passageways for rust. and put it back together. if you back the rear tires up on ramps it will only lose a little fluid. I would drain and replace with UTF. it works much better in the cold. If you don't have the handle and control rod I don't know how your controling it. there aren't any seals inside it just springs and ball bearings. don't lose them, I take mine apart in a cake pan on the bench. after the fist one when I lost a ball. |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 7:06pm
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Ok. Thanks for the info. I do now have the hydraulic control lever and linkage, works good doesn't bind. It bolts on with my switching valve. Pump comes off in the morning
------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 8:29am
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dumped my fluid, pump is off, printed picture, now off to disasemble pump and look for problem. When i dumped my fluid (which now has 10-15hrs) i ran it through a paint strainter before my milk jugs and had alot of debris, remember fluid has been freshly changed and I plowed with it early fall and hydraulics went down then. I'm guessing i"ll find debris in the pump, and maybe a stuck valve or two and maybe a broken spring, wait and see. Will post pics at some point today.
jccleav------ what book or manual did u take the pic from???? TIA ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 9:05am
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MODELS B-C In cases of faulty operation of the pump valves the unit can oftentimes be corrected without disassembly by removing it from the tractor and flushing it with a petroleum solvent or gasoline. 320. R & R AND INSPECTION, Removal of the pump from the pto housing is accomplished by disconnecting the hose lines and controls and removing the bolts or screws which retain it to the pto housing. Removal of the pump driving camshaft which is integral with the pto shaft is done by following the procedure outlined in paragraphs 311 and 312. Procedure for bench disassembly of the pump is as follows: Plungers can be lifted out of their cylinders after removing the cam arm pins (27—Fig. AC:60 or AC161) which are retained by hair pin locks. Inlet valves are removed by unscrewing the valve plugs (22) and pulling the internally threaded seat inserts (37) down with a sleeve and puller screw threaded into the insert. If seat inserts are not threaded they can be driven out using a drift 1/32 inch smaller in diameter than the O.D. of the insert. This method usually calls for a renewal of the insert because of damage done during removal. Discharge valves (3) can be removed by same methods used on inlet valves after removing valve plugs (5) I 2 27 13 23 Fig, AC160~Models B, and C power lift hydraulic pump which is of the two plunger type. Pump is mounted on right side o# accessory units housing. 10. Relief valve ball 19. Intake valve insert 11. Relief valve spring pin plunger 20. Intake \ 1. Pump body 2. Discharge valve insert 3. Discharge valve ball 4. Discharge valve spring 5. Discharge valve plug 6. Relief valve plug 7. Control rod 8. Outlet connection 9. Relief valve insert 12. Relief valve thimble 13. Control shaft 14. Torsion spring 15. Retaining pin 16. Shaft oil seal 17. Plunger sprinff 18. Access plug 20. intake valve sleeve 21. Intake valve ball 22. Intake valve plug 23. Intake pipe 24. Plunger 25. Cam arm 26. Cam roller 27. Cam arm pin springs and balls. These valves are removed through top of housing. Control shaft (13) is removed by first removing the washers and torsion spring (14). Turn shaft to *lift** position where thimble (12) is at highest point of its travel then withdraw shaft from pump body. Relief valve insert (9) can be bumped out of top of pump after removing top and bottom plugs, ball, spring and plunger (11). Plungers and cylinder bores must be free of roughness or deep scratches. Recommended plunger to cylinder clearance is .0002. Check cam followers for wear or roughness and reject any rollers which have more than .010 clearance on journal pin. Check the valve seats and balls for grooves, pitting or other leak producing conditions oil leakage occurring between control shaft and its bore in body will show up at drilled passage between plungers in line with control shaft bore. 321. OVERHAUL AND TEST. If valve seat inserts were removed by bumping, new inserts will probably be needed. CONTROL SHAFT. Assemble the control shaft to the lever so that stop for adjusting screw in lever is toward fiat on control shaft. Insert shaft ihto body with flat on shaft up and with torsion spring wound Vz turn so as to return the control shaft to *'hold" position. RELIEF VALVE. With control shaft in lowering position install in order thimble (12), spring (32) and plunger (11). Before installing the seat insert, seat the ball to same by tapping lightly with a hammer and soft drift. Install the seat insert, drop ball into cupped end of plunger then carefully press seat into body until top of insert (9) is 9/16 inch below top of hole. DISCHARGE VALVES. Press or bump discharge valve seat insert into pump body until it bottoms. Discharge valve plugs of three different lengths. Fig. AC162, have been used in the three different pump bodies used at various times during the production of the B and C tractors. When the correct plug is used the ball end of same will contact the spring and hold the ball on its seat when plug is screwed all the way down. If ball rattles when pump is shaken or if plug cannot be screwed all the way to its seat on pump body the plug is incorrect for that particular pump. The different plugs are procurable under number 213471 short; 213005 medium; 211360 long. INLET VALVES. Install seat inserts up into body until top of insert pin just clears the plunger spring (17). ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 10:14am
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Found a sweet answer to the problem. Sheared off pin for control shaft and plate. Gonna clean it up, put it bach together and see what happens ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 10:32am
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Found a sweet answer to the problem. Sheared off pin for control shaft and plate. Gonna clean it up, put it bach together and see what happens ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 11:45am
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Looks like you have found the answer. Congratulations!! You know, we sold the B for the sales life of the unit and I cannot recall any serious problems with the hyd. Most times it was like putting the PTO in gear or cleaning the sump. Very simple operation. Much like the tractor. Simple, Dependable. Take good care of my favorite. Charlie, That is an outstanding explanation. If I can I will copy it and put it in my library. Good Luck! Bill Long |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 12:18pm
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Bill, I copied it right from a PDF file of the B repair manual. The only problem is it has all the numbered parts but no picture to show what parts go with what number. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 1:00pm
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Also was couple other problems. The control shaft seal was not properly installed, it was only about 25% in. So I pounded it in the rest of the way. This was not allowing the control shaft to be in deep enough.
One other minor problem, the return spring is broken. Any one have one or know where to get one? Eating lunch then going to go put pump back on ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 7:54pm
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Well, pump is on and it works awesome!!!!!!!! took a while to get the air worked out, hose for snow plow is really long. im tired, tractor works, got cattle vaxinated this afternoon, time to go rest and then take the B to the wood tomorrow and cut firewood!!!! work on pictures tomorrow sorry guys. ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 6:29pm
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here is a couple pics of the pump off, anyone use quick couplers like me on there B or C???? very handy   ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 6:37pm
this is the debris that came out of the trans/ rear end ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 6:45pm
for those of you that are curious, this is the inside of the rear end, the pump runs off the two cam like lobes internally on the PTO shaft, sweet simple design.
 This is my busted control spring, control plate and control shaft( you can see the sheared pin!!!)
 ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: RockyBottomFarm
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 6:48pm
Here is my parts holder, works awesome, and the pump back on the tractor!!!!!
  ------------- 38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter 40 Combine 66 Combine Roto Baler |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 2:29pm
| I've got quick couplers on both my B and C. Since both have 2-way valves I only have the quick coupler on the left side of the valve and the rockshaft cylinder is permanently plumbed to the right side. Like you say, it works great for snow plows and other remote uses. I have a hydraulic lift setup on my All Crop 40 header that works well too. I built it so it could be removed without a trace, so no worries about hacking it up. |
Posted By: stray
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 7:04pm
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Rockybottom, I love your parts holder I never would have thought of that. ------------- 1969 190XT series 3 |