Ferguson inspired Allis's engineers?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133
Printed Date: 19 Jul 2025 at 7:18pm
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Topic: Ferguson inspired Allis's engineers?
Posted By: kffischer
Subject: Ferguson inspired Allis's engineers?
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 12:24pm
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http://www.ferguson-museum.co.uk/3_point.htm - http://www.ferguson-museum.co.uk/3_point.htm
circa 1928 Looks like same geometry as the pin hitch and snap coupler systems. Seems that Allis waited until ferguson's early, unused patent expired before releasing their design. anyone have details on the development of the Allis hitch system? karl f
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Replies:
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 1:22pm
| I am not sure what you were looking at, because I didnt see any similarity between the ferguson, system and Allis Chalmers, and if you ever used either system you would see that the Allis system worked way better and faster to react than the Ferguson . Not only that , other than the snap coupler part, the AC system was copied by everyone else and is still used to day where the sensing is done by the lower links and not the top. |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 1:47pm
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Did you look at the web link KC? He is talking about fergusons Duplex Hitch. It was a upside down 3pt just like AC. 1 lower pull link and 2 upper lift link. |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 2:00pm
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I have to agree iwth KC Grain here, no disrespect but snap coupler was all about speed and ease of hitching, that fergusson design, while similar in geometry, in itself is not faster to hitch than todays 3-point design. While it's possible, I highly dought that Allis engineers took anything from this design, since the drawbar whitch had been around for years is a single low point tow, both simply added lift capability, later Allis came up with the snap coupler for speed. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 2:29pm
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The Ferguson hitch was a step forward and ended up being a patent that was in dispute with Ford , this tied it's use up for many years and rather than standardize implements led to things like IH Fast Hitch and other tries to come up with the right draw type attachments for Ag use.
Like many inventors he came up with many ideas that were ahead of their time and when one looks over the full site in link one can see he had many talents in inventing and improving things both in England and in other countries . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: kffischer
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 3:39pm
saving a click for you--this is the photo I was referencing from the Ferguson link. Notice the lower tug for pulling the load and the upper arms that only lift and lower. I would hypothesize that the design basics are close enough that had Allis came out with their hitch layout during the patent period of this hitch, I would bet there'd be some legal action between Ferguson and Allis. observable differences: early F system as pictured appears to mount to pto area behind rear axle, Allis anchors forward of axles like a good drawbar design for optimum towing behavior (especially safety). F system ties up PTO and unit must be removed for pto work or towing, Allis left PTO free and in place and drawbar could be switched in seconds. Interesting to see ideas that didn't catch on initially but later were revised by another entity. karl f
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Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 7:20pm
| One should look at an ED40 to see what the Essendine Allis Engineers were up to, there are a number of very similar Massey parts on the Allis ED40 |
Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2011 at 11:06am
| I did see the picture, but still dont see the similarities, the ferguson has the 3rd point facing the back, or like the picture said its upside down to what we see today, allis on the other hand pulled from the center of the trator, as stated above, by someone else. I guess you would have to look up the years involved and see if maybe an AC engineer didnt look at the ferguson system and get a better idea, or if AC was desiging and perfecting there system before or during the furgeson hitch.My guess is knowing what I do about Allis Chalmers the furgeson system didnt work to there standards so they designed there own, hence the reason AC had high pressure lo volume compared to the rest of the world, and now the world has seen the light and the pressures are closer to AC was way back when. |