Diesel mixed with gas????
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31908
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Topic: Diesel mixed with gas????
Posted By: AC WD45
Subject: Diesel mixed with gas????
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 8:47pm
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Really? I had a farmer tell me once he mixes his gas for his old (D17, WD45, John Deere A) tractors with 1 part diesel to 10 parts gas. says it counters the ethonol in the gas and they run better, especially the JD A? ------------- German Shepherd dad 1957 Allis Chalmers WD45 #WD234847 1951 Allis Chalmers WD #WD88193 |
Replies:
Posted By: Tedin NE-OH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 8:54pm
| Sounds like an old wives tale. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 8:58pm
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diesel burns slower than gas, thus giving the effect of higher octane. I have heard of it being done, but that was many years ago.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: dustinmo
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:01pm
| I add 2 cycle oil not always but when I think of it to the tanks on all my tractors that are gas anyway, I believe it helps to keep the valves from sticking, and I bought a couple cases of 2 cycle quarts at a sale one day a few years ago |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:01pm
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Hmmm,,,what ratio would it have to be to render a gas vehicle inoperable, not damaged, just inoperable?
I have some theft problems at my place. ------------- |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:06pm
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half and half might work, at least it should stop pilferage! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:14pm
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I can tell you all he is doing is dilluting his oil and lowering the octane. Been there and done that. Since the BP station in the next town over has more clearly marked the diesel pumps, I haven't had to drain gas from diesel pickup fuel tanks in quite a while. Since the oil recycler doesn't want anything but oil in the waste oil tank, I ran the mixture in my 98 Chevy. The highest "blend" was 25% diesel, 75% gas. The 75-25 made the engine ping and dilluted the oil. It doesn't help. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:15pm
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LOL There's a guy named Butch on here that runs JP-4 in his kerosene A. At least that's what it smells like to this old huey pilot. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:20pm
------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
JoeO(CMO) wrote:Posted By: Dennis(IA)
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:22pm
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When I was working we had customers that would accidentally put diesel into the gas tank of a lawn mower. It kind of gets you thinking until you remember to take the gas cap off and smell the gas. Anyway, I am sure that a 50/50 mix would not run. I did take some of the diesel gas mix home one day thinking I would put a little at a time in my tractors. Then mowing the lawn I ran out of gas, so all I had was the diesel gas mix and I put it in and finished mowing. Went to use that mower a week later and it would not start, %#%&* mower never fails to start. Then I pulled the spark plug and smelled diesel. Had to drain the carb and put in fresh gas. Kind of like the old fuel burning tractors, they had to start on gas, then after warmed up switch to tractor fuel. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 6:17am
| 10 or 20% diesel fuel added to gas will make your car detonate under load and smell like diesel out the exhaust. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 6:35am
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I've heard of these different concoctions, but never heard of any of them being successful. I remember my Dad dumping Kero in the old engines and running them a short while to clean the crankcase out. Then changing the oil, and its ready to go to work again. Used to wonder how the bearings handled that menuvuer....
mailto:Steve@B&B - Steve@B&B
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Posted By: Rawleigh
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 9:55am
| Don't do it!!! |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 10:06am
| I have run a couple tanks of 20% diesel in my C. It ran hotter and cleaned the carbon. ran much better after that than before. Your car is not as forgiving. the higher compression will cause detonation and engine damage. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 10:13am
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Way back when diesel or #2 heating oil was 1/2 price of gas had a guy that came into station and bought 15 gal of gas and 5 gal of #2 in his car, old Buick straight eight. Filled up once a week with this.
The rinseing a engine out with diesel kind of worked but adding a couple quarts of ATF works also in some older engines as long as they are not run hard or long after adding .
On the old B JD i had i used diesel a few times in the starting tank to run it while mowing but no great savings of money in the long run.
Now the HD5 ran OK using the gas from Suburban after wife filled it with diesel once. mixed it down with more diesel so about a 10% gas. 90% diesel mix. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Roddo
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 10:52am
| Sounds like all Ford dealers are alot alike Brian. Ive used the mix from gas in diesel miss-fills in my dads Deere combine and Tractor many times. They burn it up no problems! |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 10:58am
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Yeah, it was mostly folks just passing through. The CA and Oliver 60 didn't ping any that I could tell, but about all they do is give rides. They did start a little harder and smoke some though. The lawn mower hated it. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 11:08am
| Put 1 gal diesel in full tank of gas in 64 chevelle , about 20/1 Seemed had little more power coud see slight hase when tromped on . Tolled a guy at work. he put 5gal in a bettle . Guess what quit on him going home . More is not always better. |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 1:05pm
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A friend of mine mistakenly topped up the tank on his Dodge truck with gas instead of diesel. There was enough diesel that he drove home ok but when it wouldn't start the next day he realised his mistake. I helped him drain the tank and prime his fuel system with fresh diesel to get it started again. I took the mixed fuel home and tried some mixed with about 1/2 tank of gas in my 86 GMC Jimmy and it didn't like it. I suspect the main problem was due to the the computer and fuel injection system getting incorrect information from the O2 sensor. I did use the rest of the mixed fuel up by thinning it more with gas and using it in the lawn tractor and lawn mower. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 2:22pm
| When I was farming with the Oliver 1850's and an Oliver 1650 the gas man said to put one quart of diesel to every tank of gas. The 1850 tanks held 43 gallon. He said his boss had told him to advise all of his farm customers to add diesel to the gas when they no longer had anything but unleaded gas. I did it when I would think about it. Not sure if it helped lube the valves enough to off set the lack of lead or even if it needed the extra lube. I never saw any data that said it helped so it could have been someones opinion. I have not added diesel to gas for years and have not had valve problems. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 2:32pm
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In hot weather adding diesel to older engines was a way to prevent vapor lock on some of them. Remember one trip I made in old 6 cyl GMC converted school bus where it vapor locked out in middle of SD in hot weather .. Next fuel stop added diesel and ran fine. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 2:52pm
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After I retired from farming I delivered new Wabash National trailers from Lafayette, In. to whereever. One night I dropped a reefer at Mondovi, Wi. to "blue bird" trucking. It was late and I was tired so I went out to the Interstate and pulled into Haekels Restaurant and went to bed. The next morning I ate breakfast and thought maybe I should check the oil since it was settled. The stick read at least 2 to 3 GALLONS over full. I smelled it and sure enough it was full of diesel. I called my mechanic at Fort Wayne, Indiana and told him the story. I also told him that I was "bobtailing". He said can you drive it here and we will pull the pump and drain the oil and get it fixed. I said, sure, but shouldn't I at least drain and put new oil in. He told me no, cause diesel is an oil, light weight, but still an oil. Now if it were gas I would have you put it on a hook cause it would wash out the bearings. I did it, but was a nervous wreck for 2-3 oil changes and had samples pulled, but it did not damage anything.. Still, I would NOT recomend anyone else experimenting that way!!!! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: ky wonder
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 3:22pm
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years ago, back in my youth, in the late sixties, early seventies we did this in reverse on the old diesels, if we where going to pull the tractor we would mix a little ( and i do mean a small amount) high octane gas in with the diesel, and watch the flames come out the top of the stack, it made a differance in power but i would not dream of doing that these days ------------- i like old tractors of all colors |
Posted By: ToddSin NY
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 4:43pm
| We mix gas and diesel and pour it down woodchuck holes then light it! Cover the hole with dirt and never see wood chucks out of that hole again. Does this count?? |
Posted By: AC WD45
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 5:02pm
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Todd: 2-4-D and Diesel fuel makes a good ragweed killer. and they don't grow back. also good for ground bees, woodchucks, skunks, annoying neighbors dogs, ahemm....chipmunks, annoying neighbors gas tanks *cough cough* ------------- German Shepherd dad 1957 Allis Chalmers WD45 #WD234847 1951 Allis Chalmers WD #WD88193 |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 7:33pm
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I am doing just the opposite. I am nixing gas with used motor oil and runing it in my 99 power stroke. Running a tank of 17% gas and adding 5 gal D2.
Mmmmmmmm, black diesel!
|
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 10:48pm
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I've got a '42 Kohler genset that has a 140ci Waukesha flathead, ignited by magneto... I can start it, get it warm, and switch it over to diesel... and it'll run nicely with a slight mixture adjustment. Best not to shut the engine down while running on it... I switch back to gasoline, so it'll start nicely when cranked up next time. Is it better? is it good for it? well... you certainly won't get higher performance without some major retuning... but if you have large quantities of it available at a very low cost, finding a way of using it only reasonable. That's what they did through the early-mid '30's anyway. They used a small tank of a more volatile distillation byproduct called 'gasoline', and once running and warm, switched over to 'distillate'... or 'tractor fuel'. Of course, it DID find it's way past the rings and filled the crankcase a bit, so there was two drain petcocks on the side of the oilpain... open the upper one, drain off the stuff on the top... after all, the heavy stuff fell to the bottom... light stuff stayed on top... And whatever drained off, well, it went back in the tank... or if it was wintertime... into the radiator... 'cause it wouldn't freeze... But it works better on lower compression engines that are well warmed, with plenty of ignition power. Because the burn rate and heat energy of a volume of a fuel type is different from another, when a combustion method is optimized for one type of fuel, it will not be most efficient for another. Multifuel operation requires that either an engine be able to be optimized on-the-fly... or that it's design be set up very conservatively, so that it will function successfully under a wide range of conditions. Modern engines are so optimized for efficiency on a given type of fuel, that expecting them to run satsifactorily on another, is asking alot. Furthermore, modern road engines are equipped with emmission control systems that have no leniency (both in operation, and under EPA regulation) to tolerate fuel mixes without major drawbacks. Modern engines also don't tolerate oil dilution and contamination products very well... they're squeezing every bit of energy out of fuel, and doing it in a very lightweight, compact package... and really only work 'hard' under intermittant duty conditions... totally opposite from a 50+ year old tractor... so what is gained in performance, was lost in flexibility... |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 11:06pm
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On another note... when our service fleet ran 7.3l Diesels, extreme cold
temperatures were combatted with one gallon of premium gas for each
fillup of diesel... never had any problems with gelling, and had no
adverse effect on performance. We had nothing but loss of performance,
lack of durability, poor fuel economy, and extended duration downtime
(oftentimes 'stranded' for a week or more) as a result of the 'newer' PS
engines, so our most recent series run V10 gas power. A little less
horsepower on tap during all seasons... except winter. Much more power
on tap during -25F days... and best of all, I've put 70,000 miles on my
latest chassis, and NEVER had it in for any kind of repair... NO
BREAKDOWNS... just regular maintenance. Haven't seen that level of
reliability since the 7.3L... |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 12:05am
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The 6.7 seems to be a winner mechanically so far. Drawbacks are the DPF and Urea adding to the cost per mile though. If you like the V10, hang on to it. They don't make them any more. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 1:26am
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A one thing to remember is distalate tractors had lower compression ratios so knocking the octane rating down would help a distalate tractor. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 6:01am
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Have a neighbor that cought 2 guys stealing his "gas" he put a 357 hollow point into there winshield but they got away. 20 minutes later the medavac was flying the driver to the trama center. They got a mile up the road a discovered that the car wouldn't run on Diesel turns out they didn't steal gas. The bullet or a fragment only grazed his head. Costed the neighbor alot of money to stay out of jail. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 10:07am
It's really the other way around. A distillate engine can run low octane fuel. High octane fuel causes it no harm. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 10:08am
I agree. Any positive results are probably only in the eyes of the experimenter. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 10:23pm
Yeah, it's a deviation from the original thread...
Cost per mile, for every PSD chassis since the 7.3, really hasn't mattered... the 'advertised' cost-per-mile never even came CLOSE to actuality. The reason we don't run Ford PSD's anymore, is because the failure rates (incredible), downtime (rediculous), fuel economy (miserable), cold weather durability (nonexistant), maintenance costs (absolutely beyond reality) and added weight (1420lbs) were simply miserable. My 6.0 and 6.4 chassis never made it more than 10,000miles without some major issue, and when something failed, Ford replaced the failed part with an identically flawed piece. My accumulated 'stranded' time measured out to be almost one whole month per year. Try sitting for six days in the dealership lobby in Clovis, NM while the dealer schedules oil-changes for the local ambulance service... and NEVER OPENS THE HOOD OF YOUR TRUCK. Bad enough that it swallowed an HPOP at 8am Sunday, on I-40 halfway between Tucumcari and Amarillo... just two days before my son's 5th birthday... but make me wait 'till THURSDAY to check it out? Totally out-of-line... for a truck with 8,200 miles on the odometer. We change out fleet chassis every 2 model years, or when one of our service trucks hits 100,000 miles. When the last change-time came around, the dealer ordered a complete set (9 chassis) containing the 6.7, all spec'd 16,500gvw. We declined them, because WE didn't order them. We ordered 16,000gvw (we're below CDL with trailers rated 9980), and gas only. Ford initially refused, but eventually agreed because our next move was to order 9 Cummins-powered Sterlings (Dodges), or something else gas. Our last round of PSDs got 6.5mpg. Our gas V10's get 7.0... and I'm over 70k on the clock with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Two of our new chassis have already arrived, they're V10 gas. When they stop offering V10 gas, we go elsewhere- we're not buying any more PSDs. When we added up the total cost of operating the 6.0's, including our operational downtime, it exceeded the road value of the truck by several times over. Ford's failures in engineering and fleet customer support not only cut into my company's budget, it cut into MY paycheck, and MY family time. They proved that they don't care- and fortunately, my boss DOES care... what affects my mobility, affects my productivity, that directly impacts him. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 6:18am
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I understand your frustration. The elimination of Navistar has so far pretty much eliminated the problems. They have had some issues with software related to the Urea injection, but no major mechanical problems. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 6:18am
|
I understand your frustration. The elimination of Navistar has so far pretty much eliminated the problems. They have had some issues with software related to the Urea injection, but no major mechanical problems. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 5:26pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Roddo
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:41pm
Bingo Brian. Ford made some damn good diesels once upon a time for medium duty trucks and tractors. I cant for the life of me understand why they EVER got caught up with International/Navistar. Worst. Mistake. Ever. |