WD45 hydraulic pump
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29633
Printed Date: 30 May 2025 at 5:00pm
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Topic: WD45 hydraulic pump
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Subject: WD45 hydraulic pump
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 7:25pm
| There was nothing better to to on a rainy day in southern Illinois so my brother and I began working on the pump. We adjusted all the linkage according to the manual and with plenty of fluid it would only put out about 1500 psi at the remote outlet instead of the 3500. We pulled the pump off. It took quite allot of wiggling and cussing to get it out from between the frame rail and the housing!!! Got it out and laid on the work bench. All four cam followers still seemed to be spring loaded. The adjusting screw seemed to still move the control valve but not certain. We got this far, can our orange friends guide us further into this project?? Thanks, Ryan |
Replies:
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 9:50pm
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To adj the pressure, remove the 4 -1/4 in bolts on front of pump holding plate on. There will be two valves exposed. Tap quick and lightly on the one closest to pumping plungers. It should bounce out farenough to get ahold of. Pull it out easy to keep every thing togather. There will be shims between spring and plunger. Add shims to increase pressure.
On the top of pump there are 4 plugs and one on back, remove plugs and replace the 5 springs don't loose your 5 balls that are under springs.
On spool opposite the pressure spool, drive the spool assy. to back of pump and replace the two orings along with two orings on pressure spool (unloading valve).
Re assembly. Good luck. MACK
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:10am
| I've been reading info on it this morning. Maybe I am over thinking and making it harder than it should be. |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 7:02pm
| Just take your time and pay attention to detail.It's not as intimidating as you think and you really can't mess up much.I'd say keeping track of the direction and order of the control vavles and sleeves would be the most critical if you remove them.Mack's advise had you leaving them in and alone.If it's pumping good they are are not your problem as far as pressure goes.Sometimes they can get tiny bits of FM in them that don't let them shift position which controls pump flow rate.Let's say you tear it all apart and don't have a clue how to put back.Put all the pieces in a box and take it to someone who knows these old units and they can whip it back together in short order.It ain't really that high tech. |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:14pm
| The big problem was slow lifting and a lack of pressure. The gauge would only read 1500 psi and would slowly fall. We plowed the garden afew weeks back and it wouldnt lift the plow up at the end of the garden if it had any dirt on it. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:20pm
| I do have the section outlining the repair of that pump, I can send you copy if needed. |
Posted By: kffischer
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:13pm
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couldn't the transport valve cause the same symptoms if it was stuck? You should have tested at the pump outlet to the lift arm rams in addition to the remote for better diagnosis. Unless you posted of this before... karl f
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:16pm
| Please do Chris!! It never hurts to see another manual. My Email is mailto:RjRenko@aol.com - RjRenko@aol.com . Thanks very much Chris. Ryan |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:37pm
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Ryan, if you hammer the pointy end of a seven penny nail down to look kinda like a thin spoon, you can insert nails to release pressure on the cam followers. It makes reassembly way easier. Seems like somebody used zip strips to do the same thing??? Do you have a transport valve on that tractor? My pump quit suddenly one spring and wouldn't lift the disc. I found the shoulder on the relief spool had cracked and broke completely off letting the pump bypass continually. If you get a little piece of gunk on the ball or seat behind the relief spool it could be leaking by. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:46pm
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Ryan, Don't be intimidated by working on the hyd pump. Just keep all the parts in order as they are removed. Keep the parts in clean diesel oil so they will not enlarge. Be sure to clean the pump. As said above it does not take much to foul up action.
Looks like you have gotten the pump working as suggested. However you do not have pressure Could be a leak somewhere. O-rings ect. Check spring pressure to be certain there are no broken springs. Are all the plungers moving well. Pull them out and see if there are any broken springs under them. Look closely.
Charlie, we were told from the factor to batter the end of nails to make tools to hold the cam followers in. If the pump does not come out easily then go to lunch. I did that came back and it almost fell out.
Remember, If I can take a pump appart and get it back together working I am certain you can.
Let us know how it goes.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:57pm
| If the transport valve was stuck, I'm thinking it wouldn't affect the lifting of the plow though which is done by the lift arms. Am I wrong?? I appreciate all your input and comments. Ryan |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:37pm
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All the plumbing comes off the hold valve.Remote and both lift arm cylinders so if your transport valve is not turned in tight it could be bypassing pressure there and dumping it back to sump.Do you for sure have a transport valve? It'd be on the end of the remote line with a return dumping back in at the fill cap.
I'm thinking maybe all 45's had transports but not sure. On the "nail" tip,you'll see where to wedge them in the lever when you compress it down by hand.Once you've cleared the housing with the rollers and the pump is kinda hanging on the pickup tube,you can pull them out with pliers easily.Don't drop one inside housing!
The thumbscrew on front adjusts amount of oil pumped.It should be out against the clutch hsg when pump is mounted.Some suggest screwing all in then out to fix a stuck valve if pump seems slow. Screw it in 1/2 for mounting pump then back it out(more clearence).Your pressure problem isn't affected by this side of pump.
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:59pm
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Hi Chris.
Would you mind shooting me a copy of the pump repair also? I think that I might be looking at a repair in the not too distant future. Thanks. Jim
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Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 8:05am
| Getting copy's done today, will contact you folks for address. |
Posted By: Roddo
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:20am
| I'd love one as well! |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 26 May 2011 at 9:17pm
| It still aint right!! We took pump off and very carefully started our rebuild. Ordered a seal and plunger kit from Agco part#70255272. All control valves were not stuck and were oiled and correctly reinstalled. All springs were not broken but replaced anyway. The only issue was the unloading valve assembly which Agco told me was no longer available but had a outside supplier. After all linkage was adjusted the pump was just as weak as before we started. It only would put out 1500psi and would slowly drop!! What are we missing?? The unloading valve from the after market supplier or what?? I don't know whats left to work on. Ryan |
Posted By: MBWisc
Date Posted: 27 May 2011 at 8:13am
| I'd appreciate a copy too! |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 2:51pm
| Bump |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 3:13pm
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Did the pump work OK say last year? You could add about .020 inch of shim to add about 1400psi but if it worked before and has recently lost pressure or volume, there is something wrong with the pump. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 8:30pm
| I was wondering what each shim added to the unloading valve would really do in terms of psi increase. Ryan |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 8:39pm
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.010 will do 700 psi on my WD45.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 8:49pm
| CTucker, thanks for any info!!! My brother and I are running out of things to replace!! We were VERY CAREFULL and had alot of information in front of us as we started. Replaced all springs and orings with Agco parts. The only other thing we didnt replace was the unloading valve assembly which I was told by our dealer was no longer available through Agco but they gave me a phone number for a aftermarket one. Maybe shims could be the answer. |
Posted By: Tedin NE-OH
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 8:54pm
| Just a thought, have you checked your guage? |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:10pm
| Yes Ted. We put in our 1950 WD and it read a good 3600 psi!! We are at a point were we will not let this pump beat us!! lol |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:17pm
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Ryan, if you take the relief spool out to shim it up, take a close look at the corner where the shims seat. Mine cracked there and came apart in 2 pieces. If it breaks all the way, like mine did, you won't have enough pressure to pick up a wheel disc. BTDT ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:29pm
| CTucker, it wasnt cracked. I kinda figured if the unloading valve was no longer available through Agco it must not be a high wear item. Am I wrong?? Ryan |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:48pm
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No, as long as it's not cracked or broken. I doubt it would wear out.
My new one from agco, several years ago wasn't machined complete and caused my pump to unload at over 9000psi. I took it back apart and found a 1/4 inch diameter c'bore missing down inside the back end. That was like adding a 1/4 inch shim to the front. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 11:56am
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Years ago I put a new unloader in my 45 and it didn't help a bit.Had 11 shims and still eradic unload pressures.Doubt unloader is culprit but this seems to be the $64000 question no one can answer.I've got a 5/16 washer with the center trimmed out as an additional shim and it's useable.Always good pressure at/off idle but not at half throttle or more.Always suspected the check ball on back end of pump where it transfers to control valve of not holding and getting a "bounce back" of pressure which effects unloader but never went to the trouble to prove it.They didn't include that "valve" in my rebuild kit from AC years ago.It takes pressure on the outlet end of unloader to lift ball off seat.I don't understand how mine can vary so much but it's most effected by rpm.I quit beating my head on the wall on got it useable and quit.
I'd shim the crap out of it first and see what happens.Keep in mind it's very hard not to nick the o-rings taking the unloader in and out.A cut o-ring won't help the preesure thing.
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 9:03pm
| I think thats our next step. We have became real good at removing the pump!! What about the shim issue?? We are reading about 1500psi right now, now many shims would a person add?? Ryan |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 9:07pm
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.020-.025 inch should do it. I have a home made hole punch so i make em right on my bench in the garage. it helps to have shim stock available when you need it. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 1:06am
| Going from memory but mine stack is around an 1/8 in.Book talks like 7 is ballpark but I needed alot more and didn't have shims so I made one thick one out of a 5/16 flat washer and added real shims to that...it was a shot in the dark.Just remember the hole in the middle has to be as large as the real shims. |
Posted By: landpainter
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 7:28am
| Could you put me on list for repair sheet |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 7:48am
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Had a D10 pump (almost same as WD) that would not work at all. I rebuilt it, still would not pump at all. Went down spent 1/2 day still would do nothing. Took it off again brought it home with me. Took the unloder valve out of a WD pump I had hear. Sent it home and it worked great.
Have worked on these for 45 years and could not see any thing wrong with unloader valve, but it worked. MACK
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 8:23pm
| What sucks is everytime I add shims to the unloading valve in a attempt to get around 3500psi I must pull the whole pump out. Good thing we are getting like a pit crew on pulling it out!! I will order the shim kit tomorrow from Agco. Whats in the shim kit, one shim or ten??? Are they all the same thickness?? Ryan |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2011 at 9:29pm
| Got around to working on the pump today. The unloading valve had three shims on it to begin with and we were only getting around 1500psi out of it. We purchased six shims from Agco for $3.47 each!!! But the tractor is over 50 years old, so we can't complain. We added the six shims to the original three for a total of nine. Put it all together and we are pleased to say the pump was putting out 3500-3700psi before it unloaded!!! that was great but after unloading the pressure would not hold at the remote oulet, it would drop off pretty fast. It should hold shouldnt it until you lower the lever?? Do the discharge valves need to be seated?? We were glad to reach the proper psi at the rear remote and are trying to fine tune this pump. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2011 at 9:38pm
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Do you have a transport valve on the tractor. It could be leaking back through the return on the transport I believe. If you don't have the transport, you've got a ball and seat that don't match up right in the pump or something keeping the ball off the seat. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2011 at 9:54pm
| It does have the transport valve on it. Whats the deal with it?? Some people say screw it out with pull type implements and others say the opposite. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 2:42pm
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I've never had a tractor with the transport valve. I don't know which way is closed, I assume screwed in? If you don't use it for anything, take it off and put your hydraulic coupling directly on the end of the supply line. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: kffischer
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 11:41am
that almost sounds to be normal behavior. But I don't have enough experience with the allis systems to give you technical advice. The low pressure should still overcome gravity if everything is set correctly. Also my WD operator's manual warns to not keep the quadrant lever in the lift position when using external remotes for risk of blowing the ram apart. it says you are supposed to use the hold setting for trailed equipment. At least you are getting somewhere now. good luck karl f |
Ryan Renko wrote:Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 11:52am
| We have taken the pump out three times to get this problem ironed out. We are getting pretty fast at removing it!! LOL |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 5:06pm
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Ryan, there has to be a return line from the transport valve. Find a way to watch and see if oil is leaking back to the sump through the transport valve by watching for oil in the return line. If oil is returning to the sump via this line, your transport valve is leaking. If not I assume you have a leaking check valve somewhere in your pump. Now that you have pressure, check out the transport valve first before pulling the pump off again. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 9:14pm
| But CTucker, we are really getting good at removing the pump!! We could be on a pit crew!! LOL Thanks for all the help!! Ryan |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 10:12pm
| The pump willnot maintane 3500 psi after unloading. They should drop back to about 1700 lbs. Then the small plunger will start pumping to maintain 1700 psi. MACK |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 10:26pm
| Thanks Mack!! You guys have been a great help! |
Posted By: kofted
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2013 at 5:49am
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Could someone send me info on repairing the hydraulic pump on my WD? It works very slow. Also the loader bucket (trip) goes back down super slow.
Thank you,
Karl
mailto:kofted@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - kofted@yahoo.com
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Posted By: xwelder
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2017 at 11:44pm
| Could you put me on list for repair sheet helmets@accustrike.com |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 6:44am
| Best thing to do is to get an Allis WD45 service manual. It explains everything about the pump. Then download a copy of the parts manual from grandpa's tractors website. There's a link to grandpa's tractors in one of the plow knowledgebase articles. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 7:13am
If you have regular 2 way cylinders on it, nothing you do to the pump will speed it up. These pumps are LOW volume, High pressure and are made for small displacement cylinders. Any 2 way cylinder I have seen takes near twice the volume of oil to move the same distance of a displacement cylinder on account of the piston size and bore size. How well do the the original lift arms work on the tractor? ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: nbcspring
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 6:54am
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Chris, Just read an old post of yours on a WD45 hydraulic pump rebuild, I am getting into that repair this winter and could use a copy of your rebuild work, thanks, Brad nbcspring@aol.com
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