Is it worth it? You decide.
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27789
Printed Date: 23 Aug 2025 at 10:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Is it worth it? You decide.
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Subject: Is it worth it? You decide.
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:36am
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For years I have campained that people not risk their health using hardened paint just to have a shiney tractor to show off. Last night I visited a friend who has been in the hospital for close to a week due to low blood oxegen levels. He has been painting with ISO hardened paint and a face mask for several years, each time brushing off the affects of the ISOs and going onward. Last week he couldn't brush them off and they hauled him in in the squad and has been in since. His future? I dont know but I must ask myself, What are his shiney tractors worth to HIM right now?
If your using hardened paint and not protecting both your lungs, and your skin (yes the ISOs can go right through your skin) Then please stop untill you have obtained a suit and fresh air supply system. And you non-believers, how about NOT posting any more pics of yourelf or a buddy painting with a ten cent mask and wearing a tee shirt? That way the unknowing wont think they can do it too?
A person realy needs to see a dear friend near death in order to feel as strongly as I do about this subject right now.
He could use your prayers too.
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Replies:
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:54am
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You won't see a picture of me because I look pretty funny in a flowered hair net while in my jump suit, gloves and respirator. When I go into the surgery suite at work I use the disposable suits and caps so they get re-used at home. Can't re-use them at work. Works for me no matter how funny it looks. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:00am
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Sorry to hear about your friend Butch. Too bad there isn't some way to make your post pop up any time a new post mentions paint.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Pa.Pete
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:17am
Prayers for your friend Butch and for You!
Pete
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CTuckerNWIL wrote:Posted By: David Maddux
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:26am
| Here is a good one. A fellow I know was spraying stain on his deck. Did not have a respirator, so he stuffed a grease rag in his mouth and was breathing through that. |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:32am
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what are the effects of the ISO's....shortness of breath? ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 11:59am
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Don, and others who may not remember.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
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Posted By: chllngr528
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 12:29pm
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I agree completely everytime I make a post reguarding painting a piece of equipment or vehicle I stress the importance of a good respriator. You don't always need a SAR but you should heed the warnings in the MSDS and wear the proper protective clothing.
Also, while the chemicals can enter the body via the skin, it will enter through your eyes even more.
Sorry to hear about your friend.
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Posted By: Jim Lindemood
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 2:53pm
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Butch - thanks for the warnings. We all tend to think we are invincible - until something happens to us, too late. (start thinking this way in our teens and have trouble out growing it) Sorry to hear about your friend - got ya covered here in the prayer category. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 3:37pm
Here's more.
ISOCYANATESIsocyanates are a family of highly reactive, low molecular weight chemicals. They are widely used in the manufacture of flexible and rigid foams, fibers, coatings such as paints and varnishes, and elastomers, and are increasingly used in the automobile industry, autobody repair, and building insulation materials. Spray-on polyurethane products containing isocyanates have been developed for a wide range of retail, commercial, and industrial uses to protect cement, wood, fiberglass, steel and aluminum, including protective coatings for truck beds, trailers, boats, foundations, and decks. Isocyanates are powerful irritants to the mucous membranes of the eyes and gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflammation. Isocyanates can also sensitize workers, making them subject to severe asthma attacks if they are exposed again. Death from severe asthma in some sensitized subjects has been reported. Workers potentially exposed to isocyanates who experience persistent or recurring eye irritation, nasal congestion, dry or sore throat, cold-like symptoms, cough, shortness of breath, wheezing, or chest tightness should see a physician knowledgeable in work-related health problems. Preventing exposure to isocyanates is a critical step in eliminating the health hazard. Engineering controls such as closed systems and ventilation should be the principal method for minimizing isocyanate exposure in the workplace. Other controls, such as worker isolation and personal protective clothing and equipment may also be necessary. Early recognition of sensitization and prompt and strict elimination of exposures is essential to reduce the risk of long-term or permanent respiratory problems for workers who have become sensitized. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 3:48pm
| Sorry to hear about your friend Butch, for a while there a few years ago, it seemed that you and I were the only one's on this page who understood what the effects were and got tired of preaching and pretty much gave up, maybe we shouldn't have. In any case your Buddy is in my prayers. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 4:09pm
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I don't use hardener. Still use a respirator though. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 6:28pm
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So, is it the hardener that is the risk or certain types of paint? I have never painted anything major yet. ------------- 1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221 |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:10pm
| I bought a very expensive respirator before my last paint job and I couldn't believe how good it worked. I usually feel sick and a bad head ache for several days after painting but with the respirator I felt fine. When I was younger I worked in a farm shop that had a makeshift paint booth in it and the painters would paint at night. one night they were painting a grain bed using hardner and 4 guys in the shop (not in the paint booth) wound up in the hospital. I had a bloody nose for a couple of days and now I have reactions to most any fumes. What do you guys use for eye protection. |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:20pm
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Some paints don't list it specifically as a hardener. I use PPG paint as it will last longer than implement paint and looks better. It lists some parts as hardeners and some as activators. Both have isocyanates. The paint itself does not/nor does its specific thinner. The hardeners for the PPG primers and the hardeners for the clearcoat do. I am planning on purchasing a Hobbyair system. I used to just use a $35 dollar mask from the local hardware store, but did not realize that the iso's can go right thru it. From my safety training with the company I work for they teach us the most vunerable areas of the body for absorbing chemicals. Eyes are near the top as well as armpits, inner elbows/mouth/groin (this one is the top if I remember correctly). Anyway I have started to change my view on my personal health since I have children now and would like to be around for quite a while for them. $390-420 is excellent insurance against it.
Here is a question for those who have one. I hear that the hood is better than the half mask (protection wise). Why is that? My opinion would be that the positive seal from the mask would be better. I'm probably wrong but why specifically.
Thanks
Adam
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:32pm
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I have a hood and full face mask that came from WW Grainger and I rigged my own air supply. A person will have a very hard time finding anyone who will sell just the mask for supplied air, they want the entire system sold as one unit for I guess obvious reasons. Here is a nice looking system for about as cheap as I have seen them.
http://www.turbineproducts.com/fresh-air-respirators.html - http://www.turbineproducts.com/fresh-air-respirators.html
Hobby air has been mentioned, they are popular.
Also at Grainder or painting supply houses are long overcoats to protect your body. I probably have $6-700 tied up in safety equipment for painting, seems like a pittance right now.
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Posted By: Brad MI
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2011 at 10:07pm
| Guys, listen to what Butch is saying... SUPPLIED AIR! Not a respirator, SUPPLIED AIR! I watched my dad gasp, choke and eventually suffocate over a period of three years mostly because of sanding and painting his beloved Allis Tractors improperly. Not a memory I wish on your kids, trust me. Look at the link Butch posted. I took an old CPAP and made my system, works great. |
Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2011 at 10:15pm
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Have a Hobby Air system and very happy with it. Have the full hood. Put my jacket on top of the hood-no, I haven't painted in the summer yet....got the extra length of hose option too. Going to start using gloves as I didn't think about skin contact-Thanks for the reminder Butch! Actually, I think I do a better job with it now as I'm not in such a hurry worried about the fumes.------------- Thanks Most Bad Government has grown out of Too Much Government- Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2011 at 3:39am
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I worked in truck/car/equipment garages most of my life, knew of a great deal of body men that only wore particulate masks when painting the Isocyanate paints, the acid etch or self etching primerless paints, epoxy based paints, today all those men are dead and gone, most younger than 60 when they died. We were taught in the 70's outside air source, not from a compressor in the room but from outside the building, companies thought it unnecessary and failed to supply equipment for many of these men and the end result is they are either dead or dying of lung/cardio pulmunary diseases. I have issues as to getting enough air and used to chalk it up to asthma I had as a kid or the 25+ years of sucking on cigarettes but I too painted with just a mask during those days and suspect I too have irreversible lung/cardiac damage as does my doctor. I will never paint without a outside source again. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2011 at 6:33am
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I have a mask certified for ISO, but that air system is too cheap to not get one. One more thing to think about is the dust created from using a wire wheel to strip old lead based paint. Lead poisioning isn't the nicest thing either. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: LannyMTN
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2011 at 8:38pm
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I too, feel very strongly about this subject. I lost the best neighbor I ever had, to ISO's. Please read this post, then read it again, in case you missed something the first time. Thanks Butch.
Lanny Middle TN
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Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2011 at 9:26pm
This post in very informative. I try to be cautious, and always wear a mask when painting. Didn't know about the Iso thing though. Besides the whole forced air thing, what type of mask will protect one from this stuff? We always use the disposable ones from the paint store. ------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 6:57am
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Bump ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Eric[IL]
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 7:09am
| I also think this is an excellent topic & information. Does the website have an archive folder? If so, then it should be placed there for all to access in the future. Along with proper breathing equipment for painting, grinding, welding,... proper hearing protection should also be discussed. It is almost impossible for me to have a conversation with my dad [84] over a phone due to his severe hearing loss from running this older equipment. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 7:20am
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Butch I just want to thank you for pushing me off the fence on this. I do use a respirator but it is a non-forced air unit you get at the paint store and no-where on it did it say that it stops ISO's. I ordered a forced air respirator with hood last week and I should have it by Thursday. I need to shoot some primer but I'll wait until it arrives.
Thanks again,
Stan ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 7:36am
I use my hood and overcoat now even when not using the dangerous stuff because I dont like picking colored buggers out of my nose, LOL. I am realy not a safety freak but playing games with ISOs is like playing Russian Roulette with a loaded single shot pistol, no "ifs" involved.
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Posted By: Jim Lindemood
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 7:41am
| Butch - Thanks for sharing this information - when it comes to dangerous situations, nobody should hesitate to say something. I do not paint, but was thinking about doing some this summer. Your post was indeed timely and helpful. Thanks again. |
Posted By: JohnS.
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 7:45am
| Butch Have read your article on painting hazzards and will post it in my shop so i will always see it. Will keep your friend in our prayers. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 8:21am
| since we are on the lung subject, I though it strange thatn no one posted about the same end result on the lungs from inhaling sand dust from sand blasting. |
Posted By: Chad(WI)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 8:33am
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Dave has a good point....I use a forced-air hood for my pressurized blaster for the large items, but for my blast cabinet I just have the collection system vented outside. Is that enough, or is a respirator needed yet? I guess if I have to ask I know the answer.
Sorry to hear about your friend, Butch. Hopefully we all can learn something.
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Posted By: Reeseholler
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 1:43pm
| Interesting. The first night i painted my allis I felt really nauseous and I thought maybe it was just from getting up and down and laying down and getting my head all mixed up. Now I probably know why. I always used a $50 painting mask but didn't think anything about it when I stepped up to the automotive paint. Nobody said anything when I got the paint either. At 18 I'm too young to start killing myself. For something like the hobby air system, I see that it has 40' of hose. When I paint, I blow my overspray outside, but that is also where I would be having my fresh air come from. Is there anyway to get around this other than to keep my overspray inside and the door closed? I'll definately get one before I paint my garden tractor this summer. |