AC 7060 vs IH 1586
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27675
Printed Date: 27 Jun 2025 at 6:04am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: AC 7060 vs IH 1586
Posted By: R.W
Subject: AC 7060 vs IH 1586
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 1:13pm
|
What would you choose? I would choose the 1586 "better cab view, quiter cab, better engine, shorter hood and no muffler and air intake to try to look around! The TA is a plus but just as good as the PD on a allis, More cab room. Dont get me wrong I like the 7000 series but "I" would pick 1586... ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Replies:
Posted By: Brad(WI)
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 1:43pm
| I thought the 1586 had a 3 speed or 4 speed trans (plus the torque), that's why they sold so cheap. Not familiar with IH, but we have a 7060. It is/was a great tractor, but liked to drink the fuel. I would think the 7060's transmission would be way better than the 1586's. Powershift would have 12 forward gears, and power director would have 20 forward. IH would have 6 or 8. They are both rock solid transmissions IMHO. Wouldn't the IH have the goofy suicide style doors? Hard to get in and out of, but bigger cab. I should know a little about the IH, as my neighbor has well over 100 of them. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 1:52pm
|
Yes they do have suicide doors, and those transmission weren't that great, hard to shift, and less speeds than the 7060. The TA's were great if they were not used, a different story if they were. I H did have a good diesel engine, that started well and was easy to get a lot of power out of.
------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: KGood
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 2:18pm
| The technology in a 7060 by far would exceed a 1586. The best part of the IH is the engine. |
Posted By: cms
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 2:50pm
| The 1586 is a good tractor but they ride very rough going down the road. They are very hard to get in an out of for an older person. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 2:51pm
|
just because a tractor is popular doesn't make it a great tractor. 15's had problems with the planetaries, and axles, plus the speed transmission is only 3 speed. A 7060 would be a far better tractor, and so would a 4640. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 3:11pm
WOWA .. 1586 quiater? no way The 7000 series were the quietest tractors of the day .... ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |
R.W wrote:Posted By: BLee Mn
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 4:30pm
|
Better cab on a IH????? OH MY, if i bought a IH, 1ST thing id do is cut the darn cab off! Stupid doors, poor layout. Ih was always way behind in the cab department ------------- Cowboy UP |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 5:22pm
|
Ok yall are makeing me feel bad... We have a 1586 and a 7045 and I would pick the 15's cab. I think its quiter and It has most of the foam riped out of it and I think the cab has better view and we only had ta trouble once and that was along time ago! I think the doors and cab is not that bad to get into "but im only 13". The gears arent the best but you still have the ta to use. Ours is turned up about 200hp and that tractor can PULL! But this is just my oppion and most of you will say the 7060 just because its orange! lol ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 5:34pm
|
Good comparison.
Per Nebraska tests
1586 IH 161.55HP@2500 RPM - 10.58 gal per hour - 79.0 db(A)
7060 AC mailto:161.51HP@2300 - 161.51HP@2300 RPM - 10.17 gal per hour - 77.5 db(A) Bwn Belly 7060 78.5
4640 JD mailto:156.30HP@2200 - 156.30HP@2200 RPM - 10.01 gal per hour - 77.5 db(A)
2-155WFE mailto:157.73HP@2200 - 157.73HP@2200 RPM - 10.43 gal per hour - 80.0 db(A)
2390 JIC mailto:160.52HP@2100 - 160.52HP@2100 RPM - 10.56 gal per hour - 77.0 db(A)
TW30 Ford mailto:163.28HP@2200 - 163.28HP@2200 RPM - 10.35 gal per hour - 82.0 db(A)
Also note that A-C, JD, and Case used multiple disc wet clutches while
IH, White Farm, and Ford choose a single disk dry clutch for their manual transmissions.
Deere and Allis offered powershift transmissions and over 50% of their customers ordered them that way.
My neighbors with lots of Iron Horse JD's use their 1586 as an auger tractors. I should not spout off as I never had the pleasure of owning or operating a 1586 or 2390 Case.
Case, Allis, and Deere also offered 180 hp tractors. I always wondered why IH didn't as I know they had the engine for it. Always made me skeptical that their powertrain was not strong enough.
Also in the above tests in would appear that John Deere won the fuel economy tests, but one always has to keep in mind that everything they tested at Nebraska got better fuel efficiency than their actual production tractors. I'm not saying they would cheat or anything wink wink> John Deere engineer's will concentrate on the fuel settings.
Cab visibility your right I like the IH, but the short wheel base gave them a terrible ride.
The John Deere Bostrum seat was so sweet with the hydraulic accumulators controling
the up down side to side for and aft movements. Also to bad A-C hid the throttle behind the steering wheel on the dash, they had the side console so right with the hundred series tractors.
|
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 5:42pm
| Well, you should be feeling kinda bad asking a question like that on the "Forum", last I knew, we all bleed Orange and IH/JD/etc are like swear word's around here, only kiddin' my friend, do you need my address to have that 7045 sent to my house, I would really like it in my barn [ NO IH's on this property!] |
Posted By: Chris WI
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 6:17pm
| all color opinions aside the cab on a 1586 has NO LEG ROOM!!! a 7000 ser may be tight in the shoulder area but for a tall guy 86 ser. cabs are a leg cramp waiting to happen! I am 6ft 7in I know. |
Posted By: MI8050
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 7:09pm
| 1586's are too slow with less gears and had the planetary rears, sort of an orphan 86 series. I had a 986 and have a 786, the 86's don't ride that bad, the 986 had ok leg room and I'm 6'3". I always have liked the 7000 series and thought they were advanced for their time, my 8050 has plenty of cab. IH hit the 200hp mark with the 5488 (not officially but certainly on any dyno, and they held up to it. I hate to say it but you don't see 5488's repowered, only 8070's. I like 'em all!!!!! |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 9:44pm
One reason you see 8070s repowered is they're worth it. It's not a cheap proposition to repower a tractor these days so if your going to do it you better do it to a tractor that will last. LOL!
All the 88 series were few and far between and I think I've seen more "restored" and setting in a shed than I ever saw in the field.
|
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 9:58pm
|
The 88's were definitely an advancement over the 66 and 86 series, but as Dave said they are few and far between and left a lot to be desired. Its not real common to see 8070s repowered from my perspective, and I know of an 8050 that is running at 215 hp and its holding together so I don't see a real problem there. A lot of the 414 and 436 IH motors have been replaced with a 466 because they did not hold together so I don't think IH is really any farther ahead in that department.
------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: boscoe
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 10:00pm
|
had a 1586, sold it 8 yrs ago T/A went out right before i sold it so $2500 for that , 3 gears for shifting, terrible, rough ride because it is soo short weel base , hard to get in and out of ,just about tumbled many times, only my opinion. 7060 never had one , so no idea. ------------- 1959 D 17 gas , 1964 190 gas, 1965 190xt gas AC 4bottom slat plow, 6 row 30in #72 planter Im not getting bigger my cloths are just getting smaller. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 10:08pm
|
86 IH good cab visibility? REALLY??? hook up to the 3pt, or drawbar in one? There is a mirror because you can't even see the darn hitch!! I did get good at using that mirror though. Plenty of IH's repowered with dime-a-dozen DT466 truck motors. Why put a cummins in one when these motors are everywhere, and bolt in. 400 series is a good engine, but they do have their problems too! Ed.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 10:16pm
|
7000 series was way ahead of any company at the time, exspecially with the black bellies. I prefer allis because of the leg room. The visibility is probably about the same or not better with 7000 series than the 86 series IH, lay out of the cab is important, and Allis had a heck of a good transmission either being a PD or a PS. Yes the cab is a a little narrow on the 7000's, but the smaller the cab is the closer the ladies have to sit next to ya! ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 4:14am
| the IH's are shorter and rougher riding, the tranny's sometimes would lock in forward and reverse, and if ya let the clutch out it would shell the whole tranny! my neighbor had that happen twice! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 7:20am
|
Can't resist. The long list of poor IH design once again. The front axle is high wear and used way to many unnecessary parts. Same with the 3-point hitch. The engines, although you can get good power of them, are not good luggers stock and run at very high RPM so are noisy. The dry clutch is by nature high maintenance and it not unusual for the clutch splines shuck out requiring the replacement of the IPTO splined shaft also. Do I need to mention the TA whether it's the standard or the mechanical diode makes little difference. While you're into these areas you might as well replace the hydraulic pumps as they do not hold up well. These IH 66 and 86 series are notorious for there transmission, rear end and rear axle problems. Then you have the park lock that is so easy to bust cause the tiniest roll while you put it in park will take it out. Make sure you are stopped completely before putting in park. Brakes in most models are very poor and require maintenance and even after repair many times are only moderately good brakes. The PTO if you use it much will eventually give trouble. Sometimes a tiny little roll pin will brake and require a tear down of the PTO. The shifting is absolute junk and high maintenance. Try to pull a starter on a 1566 once. It ain't fun. All this and I'm sure I forgot things. Creature comforts leave a bit to be desired like the location of controls, cab doors, rear visibility and rough riding although I never thought they rode that bad but my 7050 rides better. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 7:36am
|
Some of my best memories were made behind the wheel of dad's 7045. I'm with Chris/CT, just send it on over. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 7:43am
|
Well yall seem to have some terible things to say about the 1586... But ours has been running and working HARD for years and I dont think we had to do any real maintence except oil changes. It has less gears because of the very large diff, and gears "wich me and my dad have heard of few giving out! I'v never had any problem with hooking up the 3point or drawbar. It has pulled a 21" finish tool most of its life and had no real problems! And a good set of front weights and rear radials will smooth out the ride as ours rides as good or beater than our 7045! ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 8:25am
Don't take it too hard RW, this is an Allis site and your question was just itching for a lively debate. That said, I worked for 4 years at an Allis shop as a mechanic and for 4 years in the parts department of an IH shop and IMHO the IH's take more parts. I did notice that more IH people take pride in their tractor than Allis customers as they would spend way more money, like $5,000 to repair a Super MTA and $7,000 to repair a 504. That was over 10 years ago. I never saw an Allis farmer do that with a WD45 or D15. Those were repair bills not restoration bills. But other than the longevity of the engines the Allis 7000 series to me is quite a bit better tractor with a lot worse customer support overall than IH. There are real good Allis dealers out there but way too often they are 50 miles or more away. That's the biggest thing Both Deere and IH/CaseIH owners have over Allis owners. That does ensure an eventual collapse of Allis tractors being used on farms thanks to Deutz and now AGCO management so your IH will still come on top in the end. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:29am
At 6ft 7in you aint guna get much leg room in any tractor and all you halfto do is raise the seat it the 1586.
------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:38am
|
Just some videos on the 86 series...
[TUBE]0XuqY5LuzJU[/TUBE]
[TUBE]Lpa33ROU_oM[/TUBE]
------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:41am
|
Plowed with 7060 and disked/hauled manure with 1086. Didn't know enough back then but I liked them both. One thing I'll say, (being tall), is you can't just raise seat as you end up bonking your head on the roof of any tractor. |
Posted By: Reeseholler
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:55am
| I never really cared too much for the 86 series. IH was on the downward spiral. I much prefer the 66 series. It's like all tractors. You get good ones and bad ones. You could have 3 of the same model and they'd all have different personalities. Our fords are the farm are split at least once a winter to have internal work done. They take time to fix the issue not the problem and it ends up torn apart again. Poor operation costs a lot in repairs... |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 3:29pm
|
I do like watching these old films no matter the color. I smiled when they referred to their Control Center and to John Deere's cab. Just cab and not Sound Gard cab. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 3:49pm
X 2 ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 3:54pm
------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 4:05pm
|
Also for all of you that think its hard to get in the 1586 it aint no easy task to get in a 7060 either! You halfto lean down bend sideways get around the steering wheel and then sit down! The 1586 you just open the door grab the handle and pull yourself in and sit down! ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 4:29pm
That's the one thing I hate about the 7000 series, is getting in and out, and if you are a rider in one look out!!! The neighbor had a 1486 I think, cultivated in it a few summers for him, didn't really notice that much difference, never worked on one. I guess I have learned all the tricks on our 7060, cause I like working on them, when I have to. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:34pm
|
Only thing I don't like about getting in and out of my 7050 (remember the 7050 was built in 73' & 74') was the steps and there being no grab handle on the outside of the cab. They put the grab handle just inside the cab instead. The 7040,7060, and 7080 that came out in 74' put a grab handle on the outside and the black bellies had much better steps. When they did that I don't notice any problem with getting in and out, I can't get used to the doors on the 86 series IH. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: MI8050
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 4:32am
| Get on tractorhouse.com and see how many 88 series IH's there are. About 40 5088's for sale, about 20 plus 52's etc. and as far as 86 series, there were almost 100 1086's the other day. I love the AC tractors and own one myself but they didn't sell in very high numbers, the technology and reliability was definitely there though. 7080's and 8070's should have been spun slower they would have held up longer. DT466's/436's will lug, and the truck versions aren't just a bolt in.... |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:30am
Case IH offered and still offers factory rebuilt engines and when I worked at the CaseIH dealer we sold several of them. I don't think Allis (under Deutz and later AGCO) offered a factory rebuilt engine that you just bolted right in with all the latest updates. That, once again thanks to AGCO and Deutz, put Allis at a disadvantage. along with the dealer and customer support. Deutz and AGCO hung the dealers out to dry. When i worked at the Allis dealer that was a big complaint. Deutz didn't offer good programs to sell equipment like Deere and CaseIH were. Deere had a bounty on Magnum trades giving the dealer a reward for each magnum they took in on trade for a new Deere. Deutz and AGCO were just duds. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:38am
You have to post the hp hrs per gallon to get the real fuel economy to measure the actual work done with a given amount of fuel. Straight gallons per hr can change alot if the tractor is rated at 2200 engine RPM but runs the PTO at 1000 RPM and 1900 engine RPM then the next tractor is rated at 2200 engine RPM and the PTO speed is 1000 RPM at 2200 engine RPM. There will be a difference but there will also be a difference at how much available hp there will be hence the tractor running at 1900 RPM will take less fuel but do less work. Same with transmission speeds. HP HRS/Gal is the only accurate way to compare fuel economy. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:07am
|
The truck versions are basically a bolt in but a few things have to be changed from the stock engine. I helped put a 466 out of a truck into a 1066 last summer. Not too difficult, and they are a dime a dozen as mentioned earlier.
------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Alex09(WI)
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 12:23am
|
An old post, but I enjoyed reading through the replies. I spread manure with a 1586 for my neighbor and drive a 7060 black belly pd at my friend's once in a while. Engine I would say the IH is better, starts better, I really think it is a bit quieter as well (both tractors have tall straight pipe) the 1586 oil pressure is barely out of the red, bad blow by and still keeps on going! Transmission I defenitely like the Allis better, better selection of gears. the 15 is too slow for anything in low range and there is too big of a jump in speed from 1st high to 2nd high! The TA slips The 7060 grinds when shifting until warmed up, I find the T handle easy to use Cab i think the 7060 is better, door is on the right way, better visibility back, not forward. The 15 hydrailic levers are better, but you need a 5lb hammer to disengage the pto! And you trip over the shifter lever getting in and out. I like having 2 doors on the 15 though! I prefer the dry clutch on the 15 over the wet clutch of the 7060. The 15 is easier to manuver, but is soooo bumpy to ride in. Brakes seem to be a horse apeice, Hydraulic remotes easier to hook up on the 7060. We use the 15 on the bagger every year for hay and corn and it seems like every 2 years the pto clutch goes out. Also you have to remove the starter on the 15 from inside the cab!! I would take the 7060 any day, it is the overall better tractor ------------- www.awtractor.com A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 1:06am
| each time you throw that T/A up or down, put a dollar bill in a can in the cab. then you'll have nuff money to fix the T/A each time it goes out! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 7:10am
| Don't think a dollar is enuff any more. |