40-50 hp tractors Who wins?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26546
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Topic: 40-50 hp tractors Who wins?
Posted By: R.W
Subject: 40-50 hp tractors Who wins?
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 5:47pm
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Just for fun I know that most of you are die hard Allis chalmers fans but Im still asking this.
1. Allis chalmers wd45 with aftermarket 3point hitch and one remote.
2. Farmall super mta with aftermarket 3point hitch and one set of remotes.
3. John Deere 60 with 3 point hitch and one set of remotes.
They all have narrow fronts and are around 45 belt hp.
I think my personal choice would be the farmall one reason would be the great road speed (about 20mph).
But the mounted implements on a 45 would be better and the 60 would be the most comfortable so its kinda a hard question for me but i might change my mind and say a wd45.
So whats your choice? ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Replies:
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 7:27pm
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WD-45 for sure, it was always known to be the head of its class. The farmalls are geared too high in road gear, and when pulling something up hill typically they have to be shifted down, where as the ol WD-45 will bark right up that hill in road gear. And for the 60, they are definately not the most comfortable considering the breaks are basically behind the seat, and the seat has no shock absorber to it, and that hand clutch is a whole other story in itself.
------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 7:32pm
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well you got a point on the 60 olny drove one once and thought the seat was preety comfy. ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 7:35pm
| Well this is coming from a guy that loves Allis-Chalmers just as much as John Deere. So I would be happy with either the WD45 or the 60. |
Posted By: Clay Bragg
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 9:35pm
| i would choose the super mta.its worth about 5 grand.when i sold it i coud buy a decent 190 |
Posted By: chllngr528
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 9:50pm
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I'm going to vote Super MTA. Unless the 45 was a diesel.......
I have driven all three and the 60 is out of the question as far a working tractor because of the hand clutch. That and the 2 poppers tend to beat the crap out of equipment such as balers when the gov opens up.
The Super MTA and the 45 are pretty much even I think. But since the super mta was only made one year (1953) it makes it worth a little more than your typical 45. I think it would come down to personel prefrence between those two. Now if the 45 was a diesel thats a different story.
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Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 9:52pm
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chllngr528 wrote:Posted By: chllngr528
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 9:57pm
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The heck it is. If it was a hand clutch like the WD-45 had it would be fine. Why would you want another lever to operate with your hand? |
Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:05pm
| I find that the hand clutch is much easier to use. When in tights spots it is easier to control than a foot clutch. Seems to be more durable to(you can slip them alot and it doesn't seem to hurt them) Plus on my A I can change the clutch in 10 minutes and it cost like 20 bucks. |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:10pm
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Don't forget the Super 88 Oliver, the Minneapolis Moline UB, and the 444 Massey and the DC Case would have been competing with these also. On paper the Oliver Super 88 would have been the one to beat 6 cylinders, 6 speed trans, disc brakes, and a true live PTO, a torsion suspension seat, and the only one in the group other than the WD45 to have a shipping weight under 4500lbs.
The WD45 really gave you the physical size and weight of the Super H but with the snap coupler, traction booster and power crater engine the performance to compete
with the Super M. When you go to a aftermarket 3-point your not able to fully utilize the traction booster and probably be outperformed in heavy tillage by the much larger competetors. You will see a lot of 45's pulling 4 bottom snap coupler plows but they really struggle with a 4 bottom pull type unlike a fully weighted Super M or UB Minnie or
JD 60 can.
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Posted By: chllngr528
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:13pm
| It depends what you are using it for. If your using it as a hobby or small garden its fine I'm sure but if your using for actual work its horrible. I had to use it to bale with once and it sucked. About the only use I had for it was to run our NH feed grinder. |
Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:23pm
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I wouldn't really say its a hobby bc I constantly use the A to mow, disk, plow, run hydraulics, and pull scrap iron out of ditches. Probably going to use it to cut hay, pull a swather and tedder at the neighbors latter this spring. I also do all the same things with my WD45. I guess im just use to both and they both work great for me.
I don't really want to go into more depth with this. I just hate brand bashing, they all get the job done.
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Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:23pm
| All three had their good and bad points but the last place I ever wanted to be was holding the tounge getting ready to hook up a wagon with someone backing up a 2 cylinder John Deere with a hand clutch!!!! |
Posted By: BennyLumpkin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:29pm
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If I didnt have things tied up so much right now I let a Super MTA go for 2500 bucks in decent shape 2 weeks ago....they were a pretty stout tractor and as said above....Rare to find
------------- Central PA Allis Express 1934 WC254 1945 WF 1945 WC135755 1951 WD68085 1953 WD45-150217 1957 WD45D-230744D B110 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:30pm
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I grew up on a JD 60 with char-lynn power steering. I liked running it from the time I was 9 or 10 years old till it was traded on a 3020D. I never had much saddle time on Dads WD cause the neighbor paid me to work for him. The only problem I had with the hand clutch was backing a load of hay up hill. Things seemed to want to jump up and down easily. I also didn't like the rollomatic front end cause it would drop in a wet spot real easy. I still like the 60 but don't own one cause I got my 45.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Denis in MI
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 10:48pm
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I have a couple of wd45's, a JD 60, and a farmall 400 which is close to a SMTA. I think they are all about the same but they all have positives and negatives. The farmall 400 is never short on power for pulling or pto, it has standard hydraulics, power steering and will walk the dog with my three 16 trailer plow or 8 ft disk, and it moves down the road at pretty good clip. The bad is that it is big akward heavy not well suited for any kind of wet ground compared to the WD45 also it is hard on fuel compared to the other two. The 60 is a great starting and running tractor it has plenty of power and is well balanced giving it good weight distribution increaseing traction, it is also good on fuel. The down side is that mine does not have power steering and when trying to manuever it in a tight area a right handed person starts building a strong left arm and the top end leaves something to be desired for road travel. The 45 is definately the winner on most of my ground it will float across spots that the farmall disapears in. The big downfall for the 45 has to be the low volume hydraulics that limit the implements I have for it. The other two tractors will pull out pull the 45 on a trailer plow or disk but the draft control with a snap coupler plow lets it work circles around the other two It give the tractor better traction and allows you to manuver easier. The other negative on the 45 has to be the relatively slow top speed, with the exception of one of my 45s having a broken govenor weight and be able to go close to 20 mph the 45 is a pretty slow tractor when compared to the farmall.
Just my opinion from using all three last spring and summer,
Denis ------------- 1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14 |
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 11:17pm
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MTA's are worth that much? My elderly nieghbor has one sitting in the weeds with nothing more than a coffee can for cover.It ran when they parked it 17 years ago.People have stopped and asked about it and she tells them she is going to get it running and she is going to use it someday.LOL She would give it to me if I asked but a rusty red tractor doesn't do anything for me.When she passes away and her kids auction it off someone will get a little treasure.I think it's a Super MTa with one of those crappy loaders on it ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: kffischer
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2011 at 11:37pm
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which 3 point system is on the Allis? If it utilizes the power booster/draft control and the geometry is right, and all tractors are being used within their stock horsepower limitations, The Allis will probably win overall, except on the hydraulic remote. Should be able to add a crank driven 10-12 gpm 2000psi pump and come out ahead. MTA will have live (engine driven) hydraulics and independent PTO. But a 3 point without draft control will fall behind in tillage (although there are probably more people who have never used draft control despite having that feature than those that have!) Out of the 3 choices, I don't like the mounting/platform access. I'm spoiled with modern dance floor operator stations and easy access steps :) karl f
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 6:19am
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A properly weighted 45 pulling a pull-type plow will still keep pace with a Super MTA and pass up a 60. but it takes a good stack of wheels weights. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 7:02am
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For one thing you'll be in the field longer with the 45. A normal running 45 is way better than M's and 60's on fuel. I have seen the proof and heard it from owners of an A and 60 compared to my wd with 45 crank and overbore my brotherinlaw couldn't belive it. The other is a budy that has a 45,MTA and 400 he uses the 45 mainly to save on gas he says but he is an IH guy at heart. I would say there is more technology in the Allis than the other two drag tractors. There would be no question in my mind of wich one but maybe it's not fair because I like "Allis Chalmers" not the clumsy ones. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: chllngr528
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 7:09am
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Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 7:30am
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Well I will say the worst loader tractor would be a JD with a hand clutch! Too many leavers! ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 9:36pm
| As a teen I used to haul in hay for my nieghbors, I used to use a 60 for one and an H or a straight M for another. The 60 would lug down and pull a rack with 60 - 70 bales about anywhere, the M was probably an even match, but the H was a gutless wonder (wonder why anyone ever bought one?) compared to the the WD45 the bigger tractors had more traction but no more power, but our WD45 had a D17 kit in it. Of course by then we had our series IV D17 so I almost had to be tied to the seat to run the WD45 LOL! |
Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 10:42am
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Depends on what you are doing-if mounted equipment such as plow, the traction booster would be a big advantage. If just choring around the farm, the Farmals are a smooth machine. I like the sound of the JD 2 cylinders, but would not want to make my living with one. ------------- Thanks Most Bad Government has grown out of Too Much Government- Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2011 at 12:17pm
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grew up on a jd 60 and an m farmall, we would use the heck outta that m, and would pass the jd up as much as we could, it was just awkward, hard to hook anything up to, no power climbing hills on the road and slow! neighbor had ac then, he could mount stuff on it faster than we could on the m, such as a picker. i think ac had a better picker as for simplicity. the 2mh picker was a very good picker but was heavy and hard to put on, the things that we liked about ac, they were low to the ground to step onto, didn't have to climb a tree to get to the seat! ac back then were simple and efficent, the same as they still are today! and everything they had worked the way it was designed to do! |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 10:26am
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It seems to me that a JD 70 would be a better fit in this category than the 60. I once owned a JD70, and either my WD45 gas or diesel would run it right out of the field using the mounted equipment on the AC's. The 70 was awkward, had poor clutch and brakes, the power steering was sluggish, and, I thought, for the size of the tractor, was underpowered. My 45 diesel with duals, pulled the 14' cultimulcher much better than the 70 with duals.
Don't know much about the MTA. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 1:12pm
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I grew up running a lot of JDs for the big neighbor farm. If you can find a 620 it was quite a step up from the 60. Pretty bullet proof and I think they had improved the 3 point controls quite a bit by then.
Never ran the WD45 for field work very long but the small wheels hurt the ride. For barnyard chores I like the WD setup, pretty compact and easy on and off. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 3:10pm
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I wish the hand clutch on my 45 worked to the front like my B that way it is not hitting my long legs. Every time I drive it, I think about changing it to work the opposite way ------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: Craig/insoh
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 4:12pm
| I think if I were in that situation whether it was wd45 or wd45d super mta or 60 sell them as antiques and buy an old 190xt put xtra bucks in pocket very economic on fuel very comfortable to operate not near as dangerous as those narrow front end contraptions and will probobly pull all 3 or 4 with whatever you guys want to hook behind them :) !!!!! |
Posted By: Craig/insoh
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 4:44pm
| Forgive me guys I couldn't keep from replying like that I grew up around people bragging on super m and them green 2 poppers first tractor I ever used that I liked was 190xt after putting up with jd b ih 300 330 and 2 460s had to keep all of the above parked on hill to make sure they would start when needed . Everyone used to make fun of my off color tractor in their eyes but it would run rings around neighbors 806, 966,856 red tractors , and other neighbors 4020,4320,4230,and with duals would keep up with their pride of the farm 4520 green tractors. Had never been around wd45 until about 5 years ago when baling hay about 20 miles from home guy we were baling for wanted us to use his wd45 to rake with I made 1 round around field parked wd45 walked across field unhooked 7050 from round baler drive past dad cutting with 185 he starts raising heck with me using such large tractor to rake with Itold him if he didn't want me doing that then he could rake and I would cut he agreed drove 7050 to where wd45 was parked took 1 round around field unhooked rake and hooked up 7050 he never argued with anymore next day we hauled 175ac in to rake with. |
Posted By: Rfdeere
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 6:28pm
So what was wrong with raking with a WD45 ? ------------- Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners, http://www.rumelyallis.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rumelyallis.com |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2011 at 6:39pm
| I think he is insinuating how rough riding the 45's were. There were a lot of green and red owners that comment on just that. Some of them woud admit that is was a much better haying tractor and they would have loved to own one but a couple of rounds in the field and their backs told them otherwise. |