1958 D17 Diesel Head gasket
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25274
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Topic: 1958 D17 Diesel Head gasket
Posted By: WD45Diesel57
Subject: 1958 D17 Diesel Head gasket
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 4:03pm
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i have a 1958 D17 diesel and this past summer i noticed that the engine was somehow putting pressure into the water jacket and the antifreeze had an oil film on it when drained. So the other night i pulled it in the shop and today i pulled the head off of it and found number 6 cylinder had blown through into one of the water passages. It has obviously has been doing it for quite sometime before i noticed any symtoms because the head around the valves is quite pitted, but the valves and power cell are not damaged. I was just wondering if these engines are prone to blowing head gaskets? The book says to torque the head to 105 ft pounds is it possible to torque 10 or 15 ft pounds more to hold it, i was planning on spraying the head gasket with the High-Heat gasket spray by permatex. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: Denis in MI
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 4:15pm
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I have a D-17 diesel that had done this and caused the motor to sieze up. I was told that the problem is the sleeves receed into the block and they no longer have the proper height to hold the head gasket compressed. So I would check the sleeve standout and maybe go with the arp studs if you want to tighten it more.
Just my oppinion,
Denis
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 9:23pm
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Your gasket blew into the water passage that's really close to the fire ring on the gasket in the very back didn't it? Did it always leak a little coolant out from the back between the head and block? I'm told that that little leak is a warning sign that you will be pulling the head off soon. Like Denis says, once you have the head off, check all of the sleeves in several places around each sleeve. What you want to see is .002 above the block. The original specs for the sleeves is flush + or - .002 according to the original blue prints for the 262. If your sleeves are below that .002 mark, it is unlikely you will have a head gasket hold long term. The original A-C shop manual states the head bolt torque is 120 ftlbs. Increasing the torque is not going to help if the head or block is warped, pitted or if you have sunken sleeves. I would recommend having the head surfaced for sure. If you're lucky, your sleeves are OK. When you go back together, inspect your bolts closely. To ensure maximum clamping force, go with ARP studs and nuts in place of the original bolts. If any of your bolts are pitted, don't reuse them. The ARP studs and nuts are actually cheaper than O.E. bolts from AGCO and are far superior too.
Check out ARP's web site. There is a link to a demo on bolt clamping force that was done by the guys on Horse Power TV. Pay close attention to using the proper assembly lube too. Proper assembly lube is key to getting the correct clamping force.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: WD45Diesel57
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 12:01am
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Yes it did blow out right by the fire ring. I replaced all the bolt the other year with Grade 8 bolts. Iam going to polish up the block and measure the sleeves but iam positive they are slightly above the block surface. I will keep you guys posted on what i find. Thanks your input and advice.
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:32am
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Put a straight edge to the tops of the sleeves and to the head... Heads will warp sometimes. Somebody made a comment some time ago where they had special fire rings made (out of copper?) and put in instead of the origional fire rings to compensate for the lack of proper standout.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:05pm
Someone a while back posted that the nominal torque for a grade 8 1/2" bolt was 77 ftlbs. I had considered new grade 8 bolts on my 262 also. I talked with Bill at Sandy Lake and after we considered the heat that the ordinary bolts would be exposed to, I decided ARP studs were the way to go. The bolts are still available from AGCO, they're $25 ea. ARP studs and nuts figure out to be about $9 ea.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:52pm
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The 77 ft-lb spec is right out of Cat's Engineering Standards. Even Cat's special high torque for these Grade 8 bolts is only 100 ft-lb.
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D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G
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Posted By: WD45Diesel57
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 2:14pm
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Where do you aquire ARP studs? I dont really want to pull the head off again. Its my mainly used tractor. Thanks for all your guys help.
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 3:02pm
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Throw the new fire rings away that comes with gasket and make them out of neiled wire .010-.015 thicker than new head gasket. Torque the head down from center to outside 20 ft lb at a time until you are up to specks.
Have done this on pulling tractor for years with 70 lb boost and have never blew a head gasket.
The reason the sleeves sink is because the fire rings are too soft and over time the sleeves move up and down causing them to sink. The reason the 262 gas didn't that is because the gas used a gasket and fire ring that was about 1/2 the thicknes of the diesel (.035 on gas .065 on Diesel. MACK
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