HD-6G Questions
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21325
Printed Date: 21 May 2024 at 8:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD-6G Questions
Posted By: orangeman
Subject: HD-6G Questions
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 3:40am
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Hey Guys: A wonderful thanksgiving to you.
Found an HD 6G near me, Buda engine is seized and the cross shafts are worn in the front idlers.
My limited research shows that the D344 Buda block was a sleeved engine and kits are available. Have any of you rebuilt the D344 block and any particular weak areas to look for.
Also, do you know if the idler cross shafts are available as a kit, or do I need to get with my friendly machinist to have made up?
The machine is whole and complete, is close and the price is very reasonable, less than scrap value.
Appreciate any advice that you can offer. I'll bet Coke and some others have some good insight. Thanks much...Orangeman
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Replies:
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 6:49am
| If I can help am still have some used HD6 G parts |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 6:57am
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from my knowledge, early budas were trouble and the later ones were ok, then the allis chalmers were even better. you could probably retro a 2-71 or even 3-71 in her if you don't mind it not being exactly original, i think the detroits are a better engine and certinly more popular. as far as the shafts, find used and rebuild but check the rest of the undercarriage first to see how bad it is and if the tracks were just overtightened or the pins and bushings are shot. alot of hd5 parts are the same so keep your eyes out for a doner machine. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 2:26pm
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Hector thanks for the parts post appreciate that, if I buy the machine I may drive up to visit .
To dads: I would prefer to stay with the Buda if possible. Can you be a bit more specific about the troubles with the early buda's. I see quite a few early buda's on you tube and they seem to be doing OK.
I checked the machine out this morning and I suspect that the inside of the idler is shot as well as the shaft itself. Bottom rolls, pins and bushing appear to be in very good shape.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 3:43pm
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Track on 5 and 6 as well as rest of undercarrage and finals are all the same (except extra roller and track length). The front idelers used timken bearings instead of bushings and they were known bend when overloaded.
Early engines did have some problems and later updates were made within the years of mfg. as other changes and updates in full machine were incorperated. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 3:30am
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Hello Coke: When you reference the early machines do you mean just the first year of production? Was or is there a good bearing solution for the timken bearing issue and assuming the commonality between the 5 and 6 machines, were the idler bearings upsized for a shovel machinesdue to the additional weight in the bucket as compared to say a machine that is equipped with a dozer blade?Thanks for the info noted above. Appreciate it... orangeman!
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Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 4:09am
| Jeepers wish I could think clear, had one other question, I see in my Allis library that AC released the HD6 to the military but have never seen a picture of one. Does anyone have a pic of the military HD6? |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 8:42am
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Same on HD5 and HD6 on both loaders and blade machines to my knowledge.
Each year there were little things that changed, so from firstto last many small updates to the end when machine looked different. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 12:16pm
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if memory serves the bottom end was an issue not being able to hold the load. as with any machine, you have your good one and bad ones, i don't think they kept the budas for too many years before they switched to their own engine. do you know what is wrong with that one? unless the inside of the roller is totally hailed out, you may just be able to rebuild it. they were greased and some did not have a place to put grease in so you ran it until it gave out. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 3:23pm
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Hey Dadsdozer: Yep the son of the original owner let water get in the block over the past 2 years and number 4 cylinder filled up, engine seized. He's a good mechanic, but time and elements bested him this time.
There is approximately, 1/4 - 1/2" deflection between the end cap and the hub of the idler assembly. So my guess is that the ID of the hub is wallowed out, the bearings are shot and the cross shaft is worn. Been around this issue a time or two with the little early Cletrac HG's.
I have several Allis H-3's and none of them, either dozer or loader show this amount of wear in the front idler hub. What is suprising is that the chain, plates, pins and bushings, sprocket and top and bottom rolls are in real nice shape.
From talking to the son he stated that the loader was exceptionally strong. So my guess is that the bucket was overloaded many times. With the cantelever effect of the dead load in the bucket needing to be displaced, the cross shafts that carry the idler must take up the load. I am beginning to think without benefit of looking at other HD6- G's that the cross shaft was perhaps undersized for the load that could be taken up in the bucket. Since the bucket is 1.5 yds. according to my engineering references, that would equate to 5,000 pnds full load. A heaped load would be even more weight.
For practicality sake, I am in an evaluation and costing mode, but at this point given the engine work needed and the defective front idlers I am beginning to lean toward a Caterpillar 955 or other 900 series machine. Many of the sage old time Cat skinners have advised me to invest in a Caterpillar if I want reliability, but my heart is and has been with Allis's up to this point. So all options are open at this point.
While my thinker is stil working, could one overbore the hub and machine a new larger cross shaft and install bronze bushings and a nice grease fitting to make this ole girl come to life again? I have less concern with the engine issue than I do the defective idlers at this point. Would appreciate anyone thoughts, tips or suggestions at this point. In close, I am checking my sources for a new old stock set of front idlers or good used.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 7:08pm
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The slop can be from just the bearing being bad, cone and cup system and if carrier for rollers went , could be slop, I know mine was real bad but easily rebuilt and resealed with just bearings and seals. Had 3 other wheels but axels were bent , and it is from overload mainly backing up as that transfers all weight to front ideler wheel.
I believe the life of a HD6 is superior to a 955 and is a lot cheaper to operate and to work on.
Unsure of your location , can try Thill Track and Tractor in Eau Clare WI and they may be able to supply or find you parts. I sold a couple front idelers to members on here and do not have any extra now. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 3:44am
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Hello Coke: I could see where the backing up with a full load would be an issue. Now for the engine. Since the loader is on the machine it is very difficult to tell if the engine is sound, (i.e. no cracks). If the block is sound I could refurbish the Buda, but I have access to several mercedes benz 123 diesel good running engines that could serve as a power plant and they would be much less cost than a rehab on the Buda.
Dadsdozer commented using a Detroit out of a 5, but there are only a few around here and they are running machines, so was considering optional diesels that could be used at less cost than to rehab the Buda.
If one were to pull the block, is it best to pull the engine with the bellhousing or just the engine? I have pulled the blocks from the H-3's which are simple, but this would be the first HD6-G I have worked on. Have a Great weekend and appreciate the comments. Orangeman!
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 5:10am
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The 2-71 is only 48 to 52 HP a 3-71 would get you to 70+ a 4-71 would be in the 110 range.
The engine + clutch is easierto take as unit and work outside frame.
Usure of the engine you mentioned , as bellhousing will be the problem matching as you will need the clutch to be a over-center type to connect to trany drive. Some units I believe used a wet clutch for cooling . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 6:00am
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as a side bar, if you do not want the agravation of rebuilding or working on it to get it going, buy it and part it out. if the undercarriage is that good it will bring a good buck as they are no longer available. i have tried several sources just for the pins and bushings and have come up empty handed. once you have gotten the best parts from it, scrap is up and can put a good downpayment on a running machine. i also beleive as coke said that an allis hd5 or 6 will outlast a 955 in the long run and have less repair and maintenance costs. now a 955 is a larger machine and with size comes expense. certinally your call. does your front idler have spokes or solid? i have a few spoked idlers in fair shape i could sell. where are you located? coke is right about the bell housing matchup, as the detroit should bolt right up. personally, i think a 3-71 would fit nicely and be a relatively easy install. 2-71 would be a little underpowered but that is what they put into the hd5 loaders. i beleive the only big difference between the 5 and 6 was the engine. i aqhve a hd5 loader but do n ot have it up and running so i cannot say if it has enough power. coke had a 2-71 looking for a good home. there are several cheap on e-bay now and are easy and inexpensive to rebuild. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 8:18pm
Here you go.
------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 9:44pm
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6 has 2 more links in track and 1 more roller on frame. Mainframe is longer and front metal changed to adapt to longer engine also 12V to 24V electrical system ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2010 at 3:07am
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GBACBFan and Coke: Thanks for the posting on the Detroit Diesel and the information on the electrical and track length. The HD6-g that I am looking at has the six bottom roller undercarriage and the 2 speed reverse in it. I was looking the grouser plates over and most of them still have the original black patina between the grouser bars, so not a lot of wear. I am wondering if the grouser plates on the HD6 will fit on the H-3? I need to take a few more measurements. Thanks to all of you for the great info. Appreciate it. Orangeman |
Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 4:56pm
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I have an early HD6G, First year, in the 3000 serial numbers. I can see that they made updates to the belt system in later models. My fan/idler mount was worn, had to fabricate special parts to straighten it out. My engine runs good but burns a lot of oil.
There was a guy in Frederick MD in the mid 90's that knew and was buying parts from. He had about 3 HD6G's that he still used for excavating. His biggest problem was the main pinion gear in the rear. He said is was the dozers weakest failure point.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 5:32pm
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Problem I have had is the double-row ball bearing on trany output shaft will go bad and allow the pinion gear to ride up on ring gear. This bearing is shimmed to get proper lash on ring and pinion, or dept into gear. Timken rollers control the left/right position of ring for other tolerances. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 6:33pm
| I ben in parts business and never sold a bevel gear pinion shaft for HD6. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 7:29pm
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Me Again: I was going through my AC library and noticed that the Tractomotive Corporation referred to the loader as the TS-6. The form is date stamped June 1956. In that booklet they show a bunch of things that could be adapted to the loader instead of the standard bucket, including a drag bucket, Rock fork, tractodozer moldboard, Angle tractodozer, crane hook, lift fork and trench hoe.
Sure would like to see some action photo's of the HD6 with those various attachments. Thanks guys for sharing your insights, much appreciated. Orangeman
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Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 8:01pm
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Thats interesting that you have never sold a pinion gear. The guy I had visited had about 3 of them go on three different dozers. Last time I had visited him he had welded on a swept back rear onto the newer type straight hood version just for the better rear with good pinion. He cut the rear off of the swept back version at the frame and welded it onto the new dozer. Another HD6G had a half a tooth broken off of its pinion but he was still using it.
Maybe he was using them too hard, he was digging out house foundations.
I have the brochure that shows all of the options available on the HD6G. Would love to see the back hoe attacment, but I doubt any survived?
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 8:31pm
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Lot of those attachments were listed for the HD5 / TS5 also like a cab and a V plow for snow, aswell as that back hoe (scoop) for the loader tractors. best i have seen wass ripper for the HD6 , guy in Osseo MN had 3 setting in front of his shop and ended up scrapping all 3. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 4:03pm
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mudder45 ( see his profile for e-mail address )
Hi guys, I have a complete AC 1967 HD6G for sale for parts . info can be seen in the forum classifides section page 2. Price is negotiable. you can click on the big and ugly to see a picture @ www.equipfind.com/heavyequipment/1967AllisChalmersHD6G Saratoga NY area. I wish to sell it as one unit rather than part out. The old picture is from an old add I put out. Price, we'll talk ;-) Rick ( mudder45 ) ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 4:12pm
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Orange man I have 1 left. It has a later engine in it. The crank looked to be a larger diameter, the counter bal shaft is heaver duty than the old ones. As I read through some of the posts I read about ring gear and pinion problems. I have never had 1 go bad. I do not remember when they updated to the stronger parts. I think it was a gradual thing as the HD6 evolved. I do have a compete engine for parts. It has a hole in the block. Its in south central Iowa. |
Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 9:26pm
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acisbest I have a mid 50's HD6G track loader with the tractomotive factory installed backhoe attachment. Originally came from the Lima Ohio area. The hoe works real well and I paid for part of it's purchase cost by digging the footings for my shed. It's a 2 stick unit (with 2 outside sticks for the stabilizers). I just this past year had to install new steering clutches after a mouse ate the rubber boot on the brake rod and set up housekeeping in the right clutch well. Mouse pee is stronger than JB Weld. Put in the new ceramic disks from General gear and Machine in Boise (a real good source for parts I found). Kind of a long with the hoe, really heavy, clumsy machine but useful and neat none the less. Starts on about the second crank over. Also have one with a ripper (3 gang but missing the teeth) and one with a winch. These machines are surprisingly strong and were every bit as robust as the same vintage Cat. I'm not sure what the Cat equivalent would be but I also have a D4 Cat but I think my HD6G is a heavier, bigger machine. Maybe someone on here knows what the supposed Cat equivalent was. |
Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 6:13am
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Dale, Would love to see a picture of your HD6G with the back hoe attached. When I first bought my HD6G the left clutch was frozen. Opened up the clutch well and it was full of ice. Previous owner left the drain plug in. Had to use metal wedges to compress the clutch enough to remove it. Now my right clutch is toast but I have to many other projects to do and I don't use the dozer much so I get by with one clutch. Never thought about a mouse building a nest in there.... When I get time I'm going to open up the covers and see what is doing down there. Maybe even pull out the right clutch. I HATE mice. I rescued an outdoor cat to keep the mouse population down. He does a great job, eats them from head to toe. Would love to have a winch but would only want to pay around $200, so I may never get one. Don't really need it but I do have to pull some large logs out of the woods occasionally. Cat equivalent might be a 999? There is an orchard near me that has two 999's. They look only slightly bigger than an HD6G. The orchard owner died and the 999's are rusting away. When he was alive I saw that he had both of them running. http://williampowell.net/Frames/hd6gframe/hd6gframe.htm |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 7:02am
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Those clutch plates can be found used also as they are the same as HD11 parts. Juyst less of them in clutch pack. I changed my HD5 over long time back . I do have a bunch of the fiber clutches (used) and couple metal discs.
That drain hole in bottom of case is important to keep clean and open to prevent water or whatever from filling the case. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 7:43am
HD6 for sale in CT.
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Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 7:44am
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Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 8:02am
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Chris, Is that yours? Looks like you are due for some new grousers. I've been welding steel on my pads for a while. Takes a while, but my welding is getting better! Tracks are a little loose, hope your adjusters are still good. Looks to be in better shape than mine was when I got it. |
Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 2:26pm
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Acisbest:
Wish I knew how to post a picture, but I don't. The backhoe is also tucked away in my hay shed where there likely isn't enough space for a shot of it.
Replacing the steering clutch disk pacs wasn't the worse part of the job. Elevating the unit so I could turn the tracks to unbolt everything, removing the brake band attachment pins and trying to not drop the bolts into the well (I did and I had to use a magnet to go fishing) because of lack of room were the fun stuff. The hoe attachment hanging off the back end made access a bit uncomfortable. I think i could do a second redo in about half the time. One other weird thing I came across. Once you're in there I thought I might as well redo the brake pedal arms and steering clutch levers (They all have bushings that can be replaced). Relatively easy job (if you don't mind working upsidedown) except the left brake pedal arm on my machine won't come off without removing the transmission. Hard to believe but I'm convinced it's a design flaw. The only non-removable alternative was to grind away at the transmission lever housing. I didn't, so I have one sloppy brake pedal and one that feels brand new. Oh well who's to notice but me.
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Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 2:37pm
| I must be still working upsidedown. It's the right brake pedal not the left one. The left has lots of room to slide off the shaft-not the right one |
Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 6:26pm
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Dale, I did not jack up my tracks to rotate the clutch. I used a crowbar to move the dozer back and forth a few inches, it was enough to rotate the clutch. I did not have a backhoe in the way. http://williampowell.net/pages/hd6gfolder/hd6grepairs.html - http://williampowell.net/pages/hd6gfolder/hd6grepairs.html The two toughest parts for me were 1) Removing the brake band pivot point. 2) Compressing the clutch enough to remove it. I bought the brake band parts from Mccmaster Carr. My brake levers and clutch levers are all sloppy, as is just about every other joint on the dozer. I burn about a quart or two an hour, maybe more... |
Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 10:20pm
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acisbest, You're absolutely right, those brake band pivots were a mess to get off. The last guy into my machine had rigged up a rubegoldberg affair for the attachment. I needed my cutting torch, a bucket of water and nerve to get the mess out. I also wonder who the engineers were who designed the steering clutch area. They had to have tiny, flexible hands of steel to think you could work comfortably on the steering clutches in such a confined area. Even though I never really want to do another steering clutch redo, there's a part of me that thinks I could do it in half the time the second time round. I think it took me at least 50 hours from having a machine with bad clutches to having a machine with new clutches, one new brake pedal redo and both steering levers with new bushings. I'm not the most mechanically inclined but I think I could do it next time in maybe 30 hours. Does that still sound ridiculously long. By the way, with the new clutches and the new pedal and lever bushings the machine turns like a dream-almost like having power steering. I think the HD6G was really impressive when they were new-considering their vintage. Mine is a mid 50's unit. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 11:54pm
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After being into clutches several times on my HD5 I learned the quick way around I guess. Those pins on brakebands gave me fits the first time but made up new pins and now use slide hammer to remove them if stuck, think lasttime i went in it was about 5 hours to R&R the plate on clutch pack that had broken. Brake bands on last time I had to reline and it took more time to drill band stock and counter-bore lining for rivit heads than it did to take out and put in the bands.
On my HD5 track I welded rebar onto front and rear grouser bar of origonal pad. Used 7/8 rebar and used E-7024 drag rod. Did the welding over the front ideler and rear sprocket. Had track blocked up so it turned free, clamped on bar,welded it on one side, moved track to next 3 pads and did it again, when they came up on rear sprocket just welded up the other side.. This way I was welding flat and could do those 6 bars on 3 pads as a flat weld with weld space parallel to the ground .
On one set of track I welded up the top of the rail (added height to links) using 7014 and a double pass then topping with a wear rod, raised the top surface about 1/4" or more on all links on both tracks. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: acisbest
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 5:16am
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My issue with the brake band for me was the cap nut to the pivot bolt. I thought I would never get it out. Heated it, soaked it, finally it cracked loose. Yes, very tight in there, but from what I've read AC was relatively easy to replace the clutch because you did not have to remove the track to get at it. Bolts were tight on the clutch hubs, had to purchase 6 point 3/4 craftsman wrench. I was not going to chance rounding a bolt down in there. Boy those bolts were tight.. Magnet a must, dropped the wrench countless times. Clutch disks were so rusted it had expanded. It would not come out. I thought I was going to have to scrap the dozer. Small litte wedge brought it in a little. Then Larger, then larger, I think I was up to a wood splitting wedge. Remarkably the outer hubs did not break, I thought they would. Must have been about 4-8 hours pounding and turning over a week of my spare time. What a releaf when I squeezed the clutch out past the hubs with my WD loader.
I'm still in the middle of welding my grousers on. Bought square rod from a scrap metal yard. There were a few pieces of grouser welded on the track when I bought it. I'm welding a few on here an there, enough so that the pad bolts don't wear out. Thankfully the tracks had new bushings and pins, the only good parts on the dozer...
I've replaced the radiator, 4 hydraulic hoses. Had to buy track spring cover. New Starter, I think the old one was good, I had bad batteries. Track used to fall off about every hour... Tensioners were crap. Previous owner (a farmer) had done a really bad job of fabricating a hydraulic tensioner. It was a grease unit. Exploded and failed, re-welded it, exploded again... Turned a new screw on a 9" southbend lathe, took days. Holds tight now.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 9:44am
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To prevent uneven wear on track those welded on pieces need to be even and uniform on track. On dozer not as much of a problem but on loader the pads are under more wear from turning force put on track. Also be sure if you weld on just one per pad it is on front of pad as further from the pine the more the pin works in the bushing. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 8:39pm
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Hello Guys: Is anyone pushing snow with there HD6G shovel.
Also has anyone replaced a cutting blade on the front bucket before. I am going to look the HD6G again tomorrow.
Like to read all the good posts on the Great HD6. Happy Holidays!!!
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Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 2:55pm
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I installed in-line recirculating heaters on all my equipment, including my HD6Gs. Makes starting a cinch even in real cold weather. Had to drill the head and tap it but seemed to work ok. Don't generally use them in winter but I start them up a couple of times when a thaw comes. I have one positioned that if we get a major dump I could get it out to use. Are these recirc heaters what everyone else uses. I only use ether as a very last resort. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 3:06pm
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Hey Dale: Can you give me a tune up on recirculating heaters. Like what kind, what do they look like. From your description I think that is a great idea!
Jeepers, at this rate if we keep this thread going, we will be saying Merry HD6G Christmas to all the Allis Construction Machinery Men.
BTW does anyone know if John Carlson is still alive, he was the head of AC Construction Machinery at one time.
Chris - Nice pics, Coke Dale, ACis best all good info. Later - Orangeman.
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Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 4:11pm
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There are different manufacturers. The last one I installed was a "Phillips & Temro Industries Ltd" make-model 41 Circulation Type ( apparently a subsidiary of The Budd Company). Cost me about $110.00. Looks like a silver canister (has a 1500 watt heater I think in the bottom). There's an outlet on top and one at side near bottom. On the HD6Gs, both my old buda ones and a late 60's one I have there is a plug right in the middle of the head at the rear (not the easiest access point). Plumb a fitting in there with a 90 elbow and with 5/8 heater hose go to top of heater. Then I plumbed the 5/8 heater hose from base of heater to the block drain on the right rear side of engine (mine had a tap there). I plumb it in so I can still drain the block there too. Ready to go. One thing I have noticed-some of my heaters will trip my GFCIs when I plug them in and others won't. I have to remember which machine is sensitive to know where to park them in my shed. I've over time systematically done every diesel engine I own and it has virtually eliminated my need for ether (except for a pretty tired AC 210 that needs an engine job). It's amazing that if I plug anything in from 1 to 3 hours (depending on temperature) they start right up even in the coldest weather. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 1:03pm
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Went to check on the machine today, engine says 3382 hours. Undercarriage looks very good, but could not get the machine to shift into 3 or 4 gear. Should I be checking for wear on the fork components? Seems like the shift tower had a lot of wobble to it, especially a you moved it from right to left.
Any ideas on what to look for on the shifting component. Also, on the buda engines - do the cylinders come out the top or the bottom.
Appreciate any advice... Happy New Year! Orangeman....
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 1:29pm
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If that trany is same as HD5, there is a cross pin held into shift tower by two bolts, The end of these bolts are turned down to fit into cross pin. This pin is then drilled and another smaller pin indexes into shift ball rod. End of this rod has ball that goes into shift rails. ball end wears and will slip out of rails, small pin wears in shift rod holes, cross pin bolt ends wear as does the pin itself.
I made a larger cross pin and put larger small pin into that and fitter it into ball rod new holes, then rewelded the ball, The bolts to hold the new cross pin i made new and longer so they just touch the small pin which I ground flats on each side of. Now i shimmed those bolts so they just index aginst the pin but do not bind it. Full shifter is now tight and no wobble and easy to find all gears. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 3:44pm
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Coke: Thanks for the super fast reply. I am assuming the HD5 tranny is the same as the HD6, with the exception that the HD6 when equipped with the Tractomotive TS-6 Shovel had a two speed reverse.
Now onto another question, does anyone have the Form Number that Allis used for the
REPAIR PARTS LIST for The Allis Chalmers HD6 Tractor???
I have the repair parts list for the HD 5 Tractor and it is FROM TPL - 206
What I am looking for is the parts schematic for the Front Idlers for the 6 machine. I have been unable to locate either new Idler parts or used in NYS. I checked the Track shops - Non available.
Hate to see this HD6- G go to the blue torch, so will be trying to piece her back together. Thanks Guys for any thoughts and have a Great New Year!! I am out - Orangeman.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 4:04pm
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All the undercarrage for 5 or 6 are the same , trany on late HD5 was 2 speed reverse also after 1952 i believe. Front ideler is the same also on both machines.
Full rear housing and parts like bearings, shafts, clutches, brakes, sprockets, seals are also interchangable or same.
Might as well try Thill Track and Tractor in Eau Claire WI , they probably have what you need or can find it in your area on hot-line ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 4:16pm
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On the BUDA the piston is coming out by the top and for the shifter remove the 2 bolts from the housing shifter and pull the lever gear shift and you should see your shifting trouble |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 7:45am
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Hey Coke and Gemdozer: Have you guys experimented with building up the bottom rolls on a HD6.
On this machine the bushes are in real nice shape, but I noticed on the PIN bosses there is some wear, chaffing - that indicates to me that the cross section profile of the rolls is beyond limit.
Thoughts appreciated. Thanks much - Orangeman.
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Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 4:51pm
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you can weld up the rollers, just be sure to disassemble them first as welding will burn the seals and grease. check the rest if the wear on yhour undercarriage, pin wear, bushing wear. etc. you may be able to find new shells for the rollers but tracks themselves are hard. you couls always trim the flanges with a torch if they are too far gone, ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 6:13pm
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The HD5 and 6 rollers and top carrier are also Timken bearings and not bushings like found on most machines, also front ideler is timken bearings
Most of the time when they are welded up they use submerged are wire feed welder for both the shells and the ideler wheel. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 6:38am
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Guys: What is the lift height of the loader bucket, I see my 5 manual says 9 ft. I was hoping that maybe the 6 would be near 10'.
Thanks Guys - Bright, Sunny and Cold here in NY.
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Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 6:45am
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Guys: Also wanted to post, I got an email from a guy in Sweden that converted an HD6 G into a hydro setup.
Here is the email he sent. Maybe will help someone.
To make it a bit shorter, took engineclutch,
and housing away, made a plate insted. bolted on a sauer sundstrand 100cc hydrostaticpump. There was a stabiliziser (to the loader) that i had to change a bit. Made changes in the hydro tank,oil outlet to the pump and a return filter.
The hydro engine in the rear is also sauer sundstrand 150cc. usinga a thick steel plate that fits in the holes for the pto, the winch shaft had to be used among a bushing that will fit to the sauer sundstrand. right or wrong i welded it together. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 9:24am
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I have run that idea through my head a few times, as it would do away with the need for the hand clutch and give one a variable speed. Using a pump + motor ahead of trany would seem easiest way. The ideal system would be to use two motors and replace trany and ring and pinion to drive reduction gears for track.
This set up would allow counter revolution of track on one side for turning with power to both tracks. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |