Briggs 14.5hp I/C Quiet Starter Ideas ?
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Topic: Briggs 14.5hp I/C Quiet Starter Ideas ?
Posted By: BuckSkin
Subject: Briggs 14.5hp I/C Quiet Starter Ideas ?
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 2:50pm
I have a vertical shaft 14.5hp Briggs & Stratton engine model 287707.
I believe the compression release thingie that rides on the cam-shaft has went by the wayside.
For two summers, I was able to hand rotate the engine past the compression to the point where it would spin over fairly easy; and, with jumper-cables = real jumper cables = on my three battery truck and 160-amp Leece-Neville, it would whirl past the compression and start.
Recently, not even that will get it past the compression.
The common consensus is that the available starters, even the B&S ones, just do not have enough oomph to over-ride the compression.
I have looked for a recoil rope starter to no avail.
When I ponder on the fact that, until recently, it would whirl with authority when connected to the truck; and, now it won't; I am wondering if maybe my starter has just gotten weaker that it already was --- I hate to lay down forty bucks that I don't have only to find that it still won't crank.
I have tried all the You-Tube tricks to get past the compression; however, every video that I have watched, the engine has an entirely different breather design than what I have; and, the breather I have, it is impossible to close off the air flow like shown on the videos.
I had that mesh top off; and, underneath the little safety covers, is the head of a huge bolt.
I am thinking that, if that bolt does not screw plumb into China, maybe I could replace it with a longer bolt such that a nut on the longer bolt could serve as the "head" and I could trap a big pulley above the shroud; and, either crank it with a rope wound around the pulley; or, belt it to a Pony Engine.
What are you guys thoughts ?
Is there an affordable starter available that will power past the compression; or, what are your thoughts on my other ideas ?
Before someone says why not just replace the compression thingie in the engine, the common consensus is that the repair is very short-lived, even when using genuine B&S parts, costs quite a bit, and won't last through a summer.
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Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 9:12pm
adjust the valves to the proper clearance.... if your off .002 inch, that makes a big difference in cranking..
i ran a 22 hp BRIGGS for 8 years then it started doing that... Rotate by hand for 4 years... then adjusted the VALVES as seen on You TUbe... has been OK for 4 years.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 9:18pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esycZ_OLHGA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esycZ_OLHGA
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 6:33am
Steve beat me... ADJUST THE VALVES !! It's a 'well known' must do thing.....
I raise the front of the riders up, over night , to let the oil drain back into the sump,,,THEN remove the valve covers next morning (far less oil to deal with...) Have the 'proceedure' magnetted to the garage door for easy reference.
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Posted By: BuckSkin
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 6:53am
steve(ill) wrote:
adjust the valves to the proper clearance.... if your off .002 inch, that makes a big difference in cranking..
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jaybmiller wrote:
Steve beat me... ADJUST THE VALVES !! It's a 'well known' must do thing..... |
THANKS !
From the mouths of two witnesses must mean it is correct.
I guess I will use the truck crane to raise the front end overnight and see what I can tear up and lose in the gravel while I attempt to adjust the valves.
Thanks !
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Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 7:21am
If you're really too cheap to fix something properly, just park it on a big hill to start it.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Posted By: BuckSkin
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 7:33am
PaulB wrote:
If you're really too cheap to fix something properly, just park it on a big hill to start it. |
Last night, when the wife got home, we did try to pull-start it; it is an all-belt-driven MTD (I think); and, no matter which gear configuration I tried, the belt just slipped on the crank-shaft pulley and the mesh cover on top never gave any hint that the engine/crank moved at all.
Oh....., and don't get "too cheap" confused with plain old Kentucky poverty; --- I am close by circumstances and necessity, not at all by choice.
Turn me loose with just half the money that most have available and watch me come to the front.....
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 8:12am
All the above suggestions are good, if it wasn't for a well-known problem with that particular engine.
The problem with that engine, is a poorly designed compression release mechanism located in the crankcase, that breaks, and then fails to operate.
If you do searching on the spec number and the compression release problem, you'll find it ad-nauseum. You'll see that the replacement of starters, cables, solenoids, starter pinions is followed by valve and timing adjustments, with the end result being the same.
There are only two fixes, one is temporary, the other is permanent.
The temporary solution is to pull the engine, drain it, open up the case, get in there and remove the broken ACR assembly, replace it with a new one. It wil return to normal operation and run well, until the same failure occurs again. The factory has no 'improved version' to end this, as they consider this failure to be 'normal'.
The permanent solution is to pull the engine, drain it, and drop it in the recycle bin, and install a different spec engine from a different manufacturer, which is what my neighbor did after pulling apart the crankcase twice.
Is it a shame? Yes- a terrible self-inflicted wound by B&S. They deserve every bit of it.
Fortunately, this engine was sold primarily to MTD (neighbors had a "WHITE" brand label on it) with intention of being a 'big box' line. In the long run, they are victims of their own insolence, and apparently not smart enough to figure it out. The question is, will their customer base see it, and get wise? Hard to say. I'm certain the 'definite life perspective' shared by both the engine manufacturer and the machine's manufacturer, is that this is a 'definite life' product, and if they were to improve it, their regular sales numbers would fall.
As a quality management type person, I would say that drawing the sales line curves based on definite life assures that the Company's operating culture has adopted the path of 'death spiral'. This is what happens when bookkeepers and marketing departments get to make all the decisions. Frankly, they're usually the last people to lose their jobs in situations like this, but once done, they have a really nice record to point to on their resume... "my performance statistics were really good, until the company folded"
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 8:25am
it happens to all engines.. Not just the 14 HP... i have done it on 18 -22- 26 HP twins also.
And there is NO WAY you can pull start most lawn mowers.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 8:40am
steve(ill) wrote:
it happens to all engines.. Not just the 14 HP... i have done it on 18 -22- 26 HP twins also.
And there is NO WAY you can pull start most lawn mowers. |
Yeowww, I still remember the ole gal yanking the pull handle outta my hand. 
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 9:17am
adjust the valves and be done with it , by the time they get to our shop alot of poeple have ruined the starter the battery and other stuff from try ing to the jumper cables from both of their cars to it and tryey to re wire the the mower
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 10:28am
BuckSkin wrote:
PaulB wrote:
If you're really too cheap to fix something properly, just park it on a big hill to start it. |
Last night, when the wife got home, we did try to pull-start it; it is an all-belt-driven MTD (I think); and, no matter which gear configuration I tried, the belt just slipped on the crank-shaft pulley and the mesh cover on top never gave any hint that the engine/crank moved at all.
Oh....., and don't get "too cheap" confused with plain old Kentucky poverty; --- I am close by circumstances and necessity, not at all by choice.
Turn me loose with just half the money that most have available and watch me come to the front..... |
I can see being close to poverty by circumstance, even circumstances out of your control, but, necessity?? Maybe I misunderstand you.
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 12:25am
HudCo wrote:
adjust the valves and be done with it |
How? Bring the lash in so tight that they close late? With the ACR mechanism not augmenting the open time, there's really nothing that a valve adjustment will accomplish, that won't cause more harm and performance loss.... save for ONE thing- It will give you opportunity to SEE that the ACR function is no longer working.
Chick explains it all here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i54SK_SMPU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i54SK_SMPU
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 8:07am
your assuming there are internal problems....his problem is not a BAD running motor, just a Hard Start..... 90% of the time the valves have just worn in and get too tight.. simple adjustment gets you back in business..... It COULD be internal, but not normally.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 8:15am
Had a Hard Start Briggs OHV 11hp on a Snapper mower, once running was fine, was valve adjust on it.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 8:20am
B&S have a PDF on how to adjust the valves, I have a copy 'somewhere' on this PC. Usually spend 10 minutes finding it, print it off, hang in garage...then lose THAT copy.... I know you need a Torx bit and a 10 or 12mm wrench. Once you read how to do it , it's not that hard...wel after you find TDC and back off 90*....
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 9:39am
.004 intake .006 exausht rotate to tdc compresion stroke then put somthing in the spark plug hole and rotate until piston goes down 1/4 inch ,then set valves in all the we have had the small engines part of our bissness we have only had on briggs with a bad comppression release and a hand full off govenor problems . valve lash is a big deal on all the brands of small engines
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Posted By: BuckSkin
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 7:17am
I didn't mean to abandon my own thread....; I have been laid low ... very low ... by some deadly virus --- I think they are going to name it after me.
I appreciate all the replies and activity and will implement them once I am able to once again stagger around --- right now, my head is swimming, my throat has a nagging raw spot, I am seeing horses, teeth chattering and shivering uncontrollably one minute and sweat pouring off me the next, and this is the longest I have managed to stay off the pot.
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 11:00pm
From his original post:
BuckSkin wrote:
I have a vertical shaft 14.5hp Briggs & Stratton engine model 287707.
I believe the compression release thingie that rides on the cam-shaft has went by the wayside.
For two summers, I was able to hand rotate the engine past the compression to the point where it would spin over fairly easy; and, with jumper-cables = real jumper cables = on my three battery truck and 160-amp Leece-Neville, it would whirl past the compression and start.
Recently, not even that will get it past the compression....
Before someone says why not just replace the compression thingie in the engine, the common consensus is that the repair is very short-lived, even when using genuine B&S parts, costs quite a bit, and won't last through a summer. |
This isn't a 'hard start' situation, it is a textbook symptom-set for the ACR Trigger failure.
Pull the spark plug, Lift the valve cover, and observe the rocker arm for a 'double bump'. If it ain't there, the ACR parts are rolling around in the sump.
Prayers for a swift recovery, Buck! Keep us posted!
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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