First some history.  This was a family tractor that I started on about 3 years ago as a pandemic project.  It was a nut and bolt rebuild with a new overhaul kit, crank was ground, head was sent to a machine shop and checked out, planed, new valves, new gasket set, etc.  I've been taking my time to do a meticulous restoration, spare no expense!  I finally got the motor back in the frame a year ago, and got it started (by hand cranking), but had to shut it down after a couple minutes of running because it had no radiator or coolant in it.  About a week later I tried starting again after installing the radiator with a new core, new hoses, clamps, antifreeze, but couldn't get it to start again.  It was getting time to work on machinery to go to the field, to get ready for planting, so it got shoved back in the corner of the shop, and left until now.  I finally got the tin work back from a proffesional painter on Saturday, so got interested in getting it finished, because I want it done for a show coming up in June.  We got it out yesterday, and pulled it around the yard to get it started, and after a little tweaking on the carb, it ran fairly well, but I noticed it was pressurizing the coolant in the radiator, and forcing it out the overflow tube before it got much heat built up.  We ran it around for maybe half an hour to get it warmed up, then backed it into the shop and shut it down.

   Checked the oil, and it looked like chocolate milk!  Horrified, I dropped the oil out, after getting about half a cup of antifreeze on the bottom first.  Then I drained the antifreeze out of everything.  Then I put some new oil back in, and tried to crank start to get it circulated in the bearings etc., but not a pop, or any starting attempt.  It was dark, and my pulling help went home, so that's where I left it in the shop.

   Anyone have any suggestions what to do next, before I start to tear down the motor?  We're getting into planting season again, so this will have to be an after-hours project, once I figure out how to proceed.  I'm going to do a compression check on the cylinders to see if they're consistent with each other.  This is a new rebuild which needs to be broken in, so I'm thinking of filling the cooling system with diesel fuel, and doing a pull start again to get it warmed up, to seat the rings.  Dad said they used to do that trick on the new JD 4010's when they came out, because the first ones had head gaskets blowing regularly before they got the uneven sleeve-deck issues figured out.

    It has sat over a year with antifreeze in it, and no external leaks, and the oil looked fine before we got it running.  Like I said, it seemed to be pressurizing the cooling system, so that has to be a cracked head, or head gasket fail, right?  Like I said, the head was all proffesionally checked and redone, and all new gaskets installed, so I'm baffled.  I'm a JD man, so thought I might see if any of you AC guys can set me staight, and tell me what I'm doing wrong!  Thanks!

SEIA Farmer wrote: I finally got the motor back in the frame a year ago, and got it started (by hand cranking), but had to shut it down after a couple minutes of running because it had no radiator or coolant in it....

IMO, that is probably the root cause here.

A full rebuild engine generates significant internal heat when it's in the break-in process, as the parts fit tight.  Add combustion heat to that, and running with no coolant really is not a good idea.

If you're lucky, it's just a head gasket, and all your bearings haven't been ruined by pushing water through the babbit.

I remember, when I was a kid, my Dad, grandfather and uncle draining the water out of the tractor engines every night during cold weather. I thought they were the only ones.

Sorry to be off topic!

When you assembled your engine, did you put the head gasket in dry or did you coat it? What did you use for lubricant on the O rings on the sleeves?

I don't recall exactly what I did 2 years ago (a senior moment), but I always use copper coat when installing head gaskets, and I always lube the o-rings before installing the cylinder liners.  What was used for lube, I don't recall, but I usually use whatever they recommend in the instructions with the liner kit.

  Took HudCo's advice, re-torqued the head, and refilled the cooling system with antifreeze, then pressurized the system, with the oil pan off, and it looked like it was leaking down through the push rod ports and dripping on the camshaft.  The liner seals all looked OK, so I'm getting a new head gasket.  Any suggestions on how to best install it?  Best sealer to use?  Best way to prep the block while in the tractor, short of having it planed?  I haven't removed the head yet...would stop-leak in the coolant be an option?  I removed a bunch of foamy gunk from the bottom of the oil pan and pump screen.  Would it be better to use something different than antifreeze in the cooling system, to get it cleaned out, until I get it all sealed up, warmed up, and broke in?  Thanks guys!

Doc,  adding studs/bolts bolts?

Sounds like drilling 3/8 clearance holes through the head, maybe spot face also.

And drilling and tapping into the block.

I would wonder if this is liable to spring a coolant leak? Past the threads or around the bolt, weep out the head of bolt. Hopefully the locations chosen don't hit water.

If there is a potential for a new leak location, any special sealing needed?

With any luck he has the latest design iteration. They made like 175,000 WC/WF.

At about 29,000 they seemed to have changed the head.

From reading this forum during the last 13 years or so, I see that many rebuilds have issues. Other brands also. Rebuilt engine letting go is far to common.

I would research for problems and solicit advice from others before starting a rebuild.

  I made a flat sanding block from 3/4 plywood and a piece of plexiglass, and sanded the liners and deck down with 150 grit sand paper until I had less than .004 of clearance all across the deck.  After everything was cleaned with brake cleaner several times, I installed a new Felpro head gasket, which looked like a much higher quality head gasket than the one I removed, and took DrAllis' advise, and used the anerobic gasket sealer on both sides of the HG.  Put it all back together, and torqued the head studs to 80 ftlbs.  After another pull start, got it running today, and happy to report everything looks and sounds good, with a few minor antifreeze leaks on the waterpump and rad hoses.  That gasket sealer should take care of the block cracks just fine.  Just wanted to report back, so maybe someone else can use this experience of mine to head off some of their potential problems.    

  Now, the bad news!  After running it at low and high idle for about 30 minutes, or so, it started to labor, then locked up!  Now I'll need to drop the oil pan again, and start checking bearings!  Any advice where to look first?  It was running good, and never really got too hot, so I'm hoping it's just a bearing that had too little clearance, and siezed up from the antifreeze that got mixed in from the first startup.  I'll let you know what I find!  Thanks again!

   Now I just hope I can find the bearing (or bearings) that seized up, and get them shimmed, smoothed up and running without too much more trouble.  I can faintly remember a couple of them tighening up on me after checking with plasti-gauge, and torqueing them down.  Trouble is, I don't remember what I did at the time to correct the problem!  I think I just added a shim, or two to get them loosend up.  That's probably what I'll have to do this time, after getting everything cleaned up and re-spec'd again!  Sounds like rain this weekend, so I'll have more shop time.   

1) Can I get by just to polish up the main bearing half and put it back together? or

2) Will I need to disassemble the whole main bearing (both halves) and install a new one?  How much disassembly has to be done to get the crank loose enough to remove the bearing?  (Guess that's 3 questions!)  I had the crankshaft ground at a machine shop for new undersized bearings, but I can't remember what they sized it to.  It was over 2 years ago, and I'd have to go back to see if I could find an record of it, so I would know what size of new bearing to get for a replacement. I'm assuming it was .010" under, but not sure, and I can't find it stamped anywhere on the crank from underneath the tractor. 

    Thanks again guys, for all the help with this!

   The front main was getting all kinds of oil, as it was dripping everywhere when I removed the bearing cap.  The cam bearings were not changed in the rebuild, as I checked the clearances and they were within specs, so I would think they would stay in place after 45+ years.

   I was able to get confirmation from the machine shop that the mains and rods on the crank were turned down .020" when re-done.  Pretty good records after being done 4 years ago!  The engine had been overhauled at some point 50+ years previously because it had the bigger sleeves and pistons when I took it apart.  I kinda remember now thinking that the under side probably needed renewed, while I had it apart, because all the shims had been removed.  I'm a self taught, apprenticed, farm shop mechanic with no formal schooling, just mainly learning from my uncle, and shop manuals.  On the old JDs we worked on, you just checked the rod bearings with plasi-guage, and removed shims from the caps until it was back within specs...but they were a slower running engine!  I've rebuilt several Deeres and a couple Olivers, but this is my first AC.  It's also the first time I've removed a crankshaft and done a complete "underhaul".

    I wish now that I'd had someone like DrAllis guide me through it, because you explain things much more clear than the service manuals do.  I just want to get it to start and run well...it's not going to do any "work" anymore because I'm putting it back on steel rears with roadbands.  I appreciate all you guys are doing to keep the old tractors going, and the hobby alive.

    I want to do whatever I need to get it running well to "play" with.  I'll have a couple weeks to get advice, parts, or whatever I need, because the calendar says it's now time to plant corn!

     

   As for the condition of the engine, it was loose when I got it, and after tinkering on it for a few days, I got it to run, but it started hard, so I just thought it needed overhauled.  After using it for a water wagon tractor for a few years, it got replaced with a better tractor, and I sold it to my uncle, where it sat in his shed for 15-20 years until I bought it back from him.

   Dad said this old neighbor guy did most of his own mechanical work, but I have no idea what was done to the engine before I got it, except it'd been updated to the WD sleeves and pistons at some point. I have no idea what was ever done to the crank, if anything.  Like I said, I don't have any evidence of it ever having shims on the mains when I took it apart.

   Here's where I'm leaning...I'm going to check the clearance on the mains again, and get some shims to add, if they're less than .005", to loosen things up a little.  It had good oil pressure when I ran it, so if I use 30 wt oil in it, it should be OK.  If I'm wrong, and it spins a main bearing, I've got a parts tractor that I can get a block from, and start over again!  I know it sounds crazy to some of you, but I'm glad I don't need it to farm with, and I don't want to park it and forget about it again.  I'm in too deep to stop now!  Any suggestions are welcome.

Well, I am running a WD45 engine with no shims on the crank bearings to block. The block was line honed by machine shop. Crank ground, new bearings installed throughout. Seems to run real good. Maybe it will lock up on the next event we enter, or during our plowing event next week? Not a high end expensive pulling engine. Just a good fresh engine build. I did scrape the seat areas on the sleeves until all the sleeves were approx .004-.005 proud, if I remember correctly. 

   I did find something that I thought didn't look right though.  When I pushed the inserts out, they were installed with both of the locating tabs on the same side of the bearing which also puts both of the oil holes in the inserts on the same side of the journal rather than opposite of each other.  The service manual says to put the bearing caps on with the stamped number corresponding to the number on the block, which is on the gasket surface, towards the front left of the block.  That is the way they were installed, which puts the tabs and oil holes on the same side of the bearing journal, which I thought looked odd.  Shouldn't they be opposite of each other for maximum lubrication?  Doc, please advise!

   I'm going to put it all back together with a new set of shims, then check the clearance with plastigauge to see if we're still within specs.  Hopefully nothing was stretched too bad!  If it's too far off, I should be able to file the bearing caps a little to snug things up?

   Like I said before, this is a family tractor.  I'm not trying to patch it together just to pawn off onto someone to make a couple bucks.  It's going to stay in the family, and I just want it to run well, so I can play with it with my kids and grand kids!

I, personally, would go with the service manual specs, which IIRC is .002 - .003.

   I know I've got several of you guys shaking your heads and rolling your eyes at this project.  I understand it wasn't done right the first time, I just want to correct it best I can with the limited timeline I'm up against.  I want to thank everybody that's given advise and encouragement on it.  That's what these forums should be for...to promote the antique tractor hobby, encourage the DIYers, and help us learn from our mistakes so others can avoid them.

   I've got the new bearing inserts ready to be torqued, and put back together.  I've got a new set of shims, and it's come down to one question.  Do I put two shims in (2x.004=.008" on each side) for a bearing clearance of .004-.005, or just go with one each side, and file the inserts for a .002-.003 final clearance?  This is the point where I got at last time, and thought .002" of clearance was enough, without using any shims!

   This isn't going to be a pulling tractor, or do any plowing or heavy farm work. It probably won't get more than 10-20 hours of run time per year.  What will it hurt to be a little loose?  Like I said before...I just want it to start and run well, and not leave someone stranded in a parade!

 Your doing good! And your not getting feisty with suggestions about ways to do the work. You have a plan. And my guess is you will win. Might take a couple runs at it but we all do some of those things in life! The main thing is your "doing" not just talking about it!

Good luck and I hope your family WC is running well for you soon!

We need some pictures!

Regards,

 Chris

 

   With the bottom issues taken care of, and the head gasket all sealed up, with all the fluids staying in their respective cavities, now I can concentrate on starting issues!  I suspect that should be addressed in another new different thread, so we can put this one in the archives?  Thanks again for all the comments and encourgement on this project, and I promise to get some pictures on here as soon as I can figure out how to do it!  I think I'm going to have to have my IT guy (computer engineer son-in-law) help me out.  He's much better with these "puter things" than I am!  I know it'll be much faster, and less stressful for everybody!