How much tractor for older field cultivator
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Topic: How much tractor for older field cultivator
Posted By: gerkendave
Subject: How much tractor for older field cultivator
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 2:59pm
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I’m looking at trying to pickup a field cultivator to run in our alfalfa fields after plowing to level and smooth out the field. Looking at old Internationals (Model 45), old Wil-Rich (2500 or 2800 both 27’ with three bar harrows) and one Hesston 2240 at 18’ with 3 bar barrow. How much hp is needed for something along those lines? I tried an older disc last year but the ridging was terrible. Would most likely follow up with a harrow to finish smoothing it out. Also open to any suggestions on other implements that would do a good job but keep in mind we are low budget around here! |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 4:10pm
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I use a 13' International 45 on the D17. Handles it fine with no fluid in the tires. A couple of passes at 90 degree angles would help break things up. No harrows on mine. I use mine to break up old pasture land. If you are looking at a 27' Wil-Rich, you will need more than a D21 in front of it! ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 4:22pm
| I was thinking something in the 18’ for my 190xt? |
Posted By: Travis2766
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 9:24am
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Pull a 16’ glencoe and 18’ drag cart behind my d17. Have fluid, weights and duals, pretty good pull in my sandy ground, never do it in heavier ground. ------------- 190XT Series III, D17 Series IV, D15 Series II, All Crop 66 and a whole mess of equipment. |
Posted By: estout81
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 9:55am
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I used to pull a 12 ft. glenco with a D17 IV and it was a load in the clay ground here in central Ohio. |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 10:46pm
| Appreciate the replies guys! The research I’m finding on the google is suggesting 10hp per foot! I’m assuming most all of that is based upon the newer and much heavier field cultivators of today. |
Posted By: Travis2766
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 10:57pm
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A lot of variables, # of shanks, sweeps/shovels and soil type. I would think more in the 5-7 hp per foot for the older style field cultivators. ------------- 190XT Series III, D17 Series IV, D15 Series II, All Crop 66 and a whole mess of equipment. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 9:01am
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https://media.sandhills.com/doc.axd?id=3003935553&p=&ext=pdf&dl=False&wt=False&checksum=WRgpqx6zVJz0UAua8LzuZRYwnCHei%2bpdMPvZJtYj2Guw3DCBXYtbZ9NpcMNYSOhvt3WUGFO9MBY%3d" rel="nofollow - https://media.sandhills.com/doc.axd?id=3003935553&p=&ext=pdf&dl=False&wt=False&checksum=WRgpqx6zVJz0UAua8LzuZRYwnCHei%2bpdMPvZJtYj2Guw3DCBXYtbZ9NpcMNYSOhvt3WUGFO9MBY%3d Here’s Nebraska Tractor test 887 for the1965 AC 190xt diesel turbocharged. It states all their findings of maximum drawbar pull with ballast as follows: 8317lbs,3rdgear,3.2mph,14.89slip. 7257lbs,4thgear,4.1mph,9.66slip. 6344lbs,5thgear,4.9mph,8.08slip. 5107lbs,6thgear,6.2mph,6.03slip. Using a typical equipment power recommendations per un-tilled soil structure list 6-8hp/ ft? if FIeld cultivator is a 3 bar depth, then could think of each foot of width as equaled to three 4” shovels? So that computes to 14’ or 42 shovels (100hp/7hp)?? 7257lbs/42shovels=173lbs pull per shovel? Hope not? Maybe figure 50%? Which computes to 86lbs/shovel? Doubt it. So at 25% then 35lbs/shovel? Possibly. Reality demands tractor requires some hp to pull itself thru loose plowed soil. So maybe say tractor gets 40% & FC gets 60% of 7257=4354/35lbs per shovel=124 shovels/ 3/ft= 41’ FC. 6344lbs=3807/35lbs per shovel=108shovels/ 3/ft=36’ FC. Seems crazy wide but simplemath works outs. Main take away - Variables play into actuality. Maybe add 25-50% FC width if soil is looser from plow, shallower depths, travel speed, etc....? You can always reduce a over wide FC. But it’s harder to add width of a too narrow FC. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 10:52am
Please educate me, I spent the majority of my career in logging/sawmills; the alfalfa fields around here always get plowed and then cut up with a disc, followed by a drag harrow. The field cultivators with which I am familiar would make a mess in plowed alfalfa sod. Is this a common practice in other parts of the country? |
gerkendave wrote:Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 1:12pm
What you’re describing is exactly what I did this year and my disc ridges the field horribly and was pretty useless at moving any dirt towards low areas. So I’m hoping that after plowing I can go back out after it setting for a week or so and run the FC over it a couple directions then if need be to help finish smoothing and packing go back with the harrow. Just an experiment |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 1:13pm
Quite the numbers list! Although I’m thinking it just confused me more 😉 Thank you though! |
Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 4:47pm
| I loved my IH 45 with 4 bar harrow it had sweeps and worked great behind the XT. |
Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 5:11pm
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Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 5:13pm
I found the photo of when I decided to try to flatten some beds in the garden with they vibrashank I guess the XT ran out of traction before I figured out what was happening 
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Posted By: estout81
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 5:38pm
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Let me say something about pulling a 12 ft. field cultivator with a D17. It's TOO much. I was using it to level plowed ground and it was all that little tractor could to pull it. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 6:27pm
| Depending on your soil, what you plowed under (corn stalks), and how long you leave the ground after plowing, fall plowing spring tillage, you may have to run a disc first pass then a field cultivator. With not much residue you could use a spring tooth drag, A cultimulcher makes a nice seed bed for alfalfa. And to make an Alfalfa field smooth roll it with the cultimulcher with the teeth up or roller to finish it. A 15 to 18 cultivator is a good match for a 190, or 200 with duals some guys claim to pull more. For the 27ft Willrich you want a healthy 7060/ 7080 or 8070. |
Posted By: KJCHRIS
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:19pm
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I pulled an IH 4500 25' w 4 bar harrow @ 5-6 mph 2.5" to 4" deep with a Case 1370 running 175+ hp, 20.8x38 dualed. In our hilly western Iowa clay soil it had all it wanted, 1370 hydr/trans oil would run hot if over 75F, so downshift to 4-4.5 mph gear. Earlier had IH 45 18' w 18' pony harrow, Case 1175 @ 130 hp, 18.4x38 dualed no problem @ same speed & depth, Low and 4 gear on mechanical 8 spd. The 18' cultivator & harrow were too much for the AC 200, So it pulled the 8x38 or 6x30 planter. Your soil type and topography will be big determining factors. ------------- AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B, |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:34pm
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First step is haul the plow to scrap yard. We’ve had good luck spraying off hay fields late fall and no tilling into them. Other than Deere discs a disc shouldn’t ridge unless you are going too fast. I hate to say it but every field cultivator we buy is more expensive than its predecessor but does better. Between row crops and cereal grains we plant 1100 acres a year it’s been 5 years since we plowed and probably that long before. Whatever cultivator you buy make sure it has a spike tooth leveler. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 10:30pm
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. That 10hp per shank is the same I came across when I looked at them before, especially heavy clay. If you have sandier dirt or already worked field then less. Buy one with twice the shanks and remove one shank at a time until the tractor pulls it like you want. .
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Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 6:47am
| I wondered if that would work or if it would still leave a nice finished product removing some shanks. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 8:37am
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re: I’m looking at trying to pickup a field cultivator to run in our alfalfa
fields after plowing to level and smooth out the field. The other Allis guy down the road uses a set of discs with 'rolling baskets' trailing behind. That combination does a GREAT job !! might be an option ?? I know the acre I have over there to play in was miserable to run subsoiler through. After 40 years of notill, the hardpan was HARD !!, 1st gear,low range,full throttle and the D-14 wasn't 'happy',wife's veggie patch...2nd, high, crack above idle and happy tractor. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 8:50am
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Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 12:01pm
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Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 12:02pm
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Why not use a clod bar behind the plow or pull a crumbler or harrow behind the plow? |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 12:59pm
WOW!!! That is some gorgeous dirt you have there! I’m in the process of looking for another plow as well and possibly building a clod buster for my other one. I had no idea it made such an amazing difference! Thank you for sharing that picture. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2023 at 6:43am
| If/ when I plow alfalfa and grass hay ground, I use a disc for the first pass, or 2, depending on what I see. My field cultivator would bring up lots of sod chunks, usually. Just have to observe. I pull a rolling harrow behind my cultivator, that helps a lot, but still doesn't always break up sod chunks. Then again, neither does a disc. The rolling harrow does the best, but then you're pulling more requiring more HP. I pull 23 ft of "old cultivator" plus the rolling harrow with a 7045. Soil conditions vary A LOT, and I have some steep if not tall hills to deal with. On the 7045 with that set up, occasionally I will spin and hop if going uphill, so, I feel it's a good fit. Can go really well most of the time and encounter the occasional challenge, which I can address by coming at it from another direction, or go a bit shallower. Many many variables. Base your trials on what you've observed on your land over the years. If you can. There's no substitute for on the spot on the job experience. Good luck! |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2023 at 8:18am
Thanks Tbone! I appreciate your input! I am going to keep looking for something in the 18 foot range and see how that goes! I also had a neighbor bring up that he thinks he has a 470 or 480 IH disk in good shape that wouldn’t cost much if I thought it would help me out. I’ve read that those old IH discs can level pretty nicely so maybe a better disc over what I am using would be worth the investment. Again thanks for the input! |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2023 at 8:44am
| Way back when, we spring plowed clover ground. First pass was an old drag harrow then discing. If it looked good it got the harrow again to smooth things off. After the field cultivator appeared a shallow first pass after plowing followed by a little deeper pass then plant. Had coli time harrow on back. As T-bone said gotta be careful not to bring up sod chunks. Working fresh plowed ground is a pain. |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 7:24am
| I have a 22' Kent Field cultivator. I pulled it with my 7050. It knew it was back there for sure. I put duals back on the tractor and much improved. I wouldn't want anything bigger for that tractor. I'm in the hills and heavier soil. but I contour and not up and down the hills. It sure levels the fields nice before I sow alfalfa in. |
Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 9:55am
Is that Kent the yellow frame or red frame? How many rows of shovels on it? I’m watching a yellow frame on an auction that looks to be in good shape. |