12v CA?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=192091
Printed Date: 21 May 2024 at 12:18am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 12v CA?
Posted By: captaindana
Subject: 12v CA?
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 4:08am
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Hi so what alternator make n model does anyone here recommend for installing nicely in a CA Allis? Thanks! Dana ------------- Blue Skies and Tail Winds Dana |
Replies:
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 7:16am
You can put most anything you want. I've made brackets that fit the larger old types Delco alternator behind the drag link using the factory standard belt. I probably have a couple left. This picture shows it on the D15II engine in a CA.  Although an alternator makes things simple, now that I don't use my tractors as regularly as I used to, I prefer to use a 12 volt generator from a later tractor. An alternator system that sits for extended intervals will kill the battery. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:00am
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CS130 series is smaller,fits much better.... DENSO make a smaller one I think, Steve in NJ surely KNOWS ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:19am
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“..An alternator system that sits for extended intervals will kill the battery.” From leakage through the diode? |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:30am
| I don't know where the draw is but have seen the tiny spark when connecting wire to hot post. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:36am
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The new DENSO is a common replacement for everyone... Also a MINI CHEVY replacement if your using GOOGLE... This or the Delco CS130 would fit best. The are more than an inch shorter and inch smaller in diam than the OLD Delco 10 SI. This on AMAZON ..............  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:42am
If you want it Internally wired to be a 1 WIRE ALTERNATOR ............. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 11:16am
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Cap! As Steve mentioned, the "CS" series Alternator fits with plenty of room on the drag link. Also, the Denso unit works quite well too! I use either Alternator in my 12V conversion kits for the C & CA model Tractors. The Denso has a small 15mm shaft, but we have the pulleys in stock for the 5/8" belt. With the "CS" series Alternator, you can use your Generator pulley and swap it over. Both the Gennie and the Alternator have the same .670 mainshaft. Then you just need one of our Alternator bracket kits and your in! Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 12:39pm
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TRIVIA.... why has every generator and alternator built in the USA for the past 100 years have a .670 inch shaft and not a .625 which is 5/8 inch ??? Because we standardized with the Germans over 100 years ago and they used .670 inch... which is really 17 mm ( metric). ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 1:38pm
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I've used the ones from DB Electric. Good units that start charging instantly. Plus they are small and will fit in tight places. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 2:30pm
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second the mini denso. got one on my c ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 4:46pm
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Steve (IL) That's a BINGO!! ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 5:14pm
Through the diode(s) Yes. |
TramwayGuy wrote:Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 6:53pm
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Going with a denso on my CA if I get off the couch and do something on it this winter. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 10:59pm
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I have been shooting pool too long tonight. LOL I read the title as V12 in a CA???? And NO, I don’t drink. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: JohnColo
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 12:22am
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Sugarmaker, Having met you, I'm quite sure you will find the time, plus get a bunch of other projects done before the sap starts flowing! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 7:02am
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curious... Q for Steve in NJ as he will KNOW.... Are the '6 phase' alternators REALLY 6 phase or just 2, 3 phase windings in parallel ? Seems the car audio guys LOVE them, but I don't see SIX phases in a US patent I downloaded. I understand the 'hairpin' flat wire = more power at low rpms but thinking '6 phase' is ,well, BS. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 9:24am
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A standard alternator is generally 3 phase. This means that there are three “legs” of the stator that fire in succession as the alternator spins, A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C producing alternating current. 6 phase alternators have two 3 phase stators inside the alternator that are slightly out of phase of one another. The two stators fire in succession like this: A-a-B-b-C-c (the second stator is in lower case) Because they are slightly out of phase with one another, there is a cancellation of electromagnetic harmonics that makes the alternator run more smoothly and more efficiently. This allows for cooler operation, more output from a smaller overall housing, and MUCH better durability. The rectifiers turns the AC current coming out of the stator into DC current. DC current is what is used in an automobile. By passing trough the diodes, half of the AC current is burned off in the form of heat as it is “rectified” into DC current. That heat is what eventually kills alternators. By having (2) rectifier plates, there is much more surface area to dissipate the heat. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 3:06pm
Ummm... you might want to think about that statement just a bit  |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 3:38pm
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re: 6 phase alternators have two 3 phase stators inside the alternator that are slightly out of phase of one another OK so NOT nice equally spaced 6 phase power.....(6 nice sine waves.....) it'd be interesting to see the actual AC outputs.... Only power lost in the diodes is the VI losses ( voltage drop across the diode times the current ). Say you have a 1 volt drop at 10 amps.. that becomes 10 watts of power (energy) 'lost' in the form of heat. one day I'll figure out HOW to get the default font/size when replying ... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 5:38pm
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LEs, i probably agree with you... the diodes should stop flow in both directions so you only have a DC flow... two directions you need more diodes so you can get both legs of the sin wave of the AC flow............... i didnt write the post... just copied it off the internet and it gave the " basic idea". ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 7:42pm
You were doing quite well up to that point Steve; half-wave rectifiers do indeed waste half of the energy (assuming a first approximation) but we use full-wave bridge rectifiers so as to save both halves of the sine wave. Then using the industry standard (which assumes a second approximation) the diodes drop 0.7 Volts each, but they rarely actually drop that much so we go to the third approximation...  It's been a few years since I got my electronics degree and I probably couldn't pass any tests nowadays so I'll just stop there  The main point is that 3-phase is better than single phase (alternators are more efficient than generators) and 6-phase is better yet. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2022 at 3:47pm
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...and... 6 equally spaced phases are much better than 2, 3 phases being 'slightly out of phase'.. these '6 phase' alternators are only 'better' at lower RPM compared to 3 phase ones BUT a LOT more money. probably invented by a kid that needed his 2 gigawatt stereo to blast out when at a red light ?? good use though would be snowplowing JEEPs ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2022 at 6:36am
Golly gee Wally, one simple question and electronics class starts!  I must have done something wrong(or it may be RIGHT) on my 45 twenty years ago when I put the alternator on it. That tractor might set a year at a time without being used, and I've NEVER had the battery drained down because of the alternator. Maybe I need to sell my wiring diagram so people don't have to recharge their dead batteries all the time  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2022 at 9:58am
| I have 10 Si Chevy alternators on all my tractors including the CA its real tight on the CA and if I was todo today I'd use the cs130. I used the Chevy alternators because at the time they were real cheep in fact most of them were free. If your alternator is draining your battery you need a new one. Or it's wired wrong the sense wire should be switched so no power when the ignition is off and a diode to prevent back flow. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2022 at 6:11pm
Agreed. ALL diodes have leakage current, good ones don't leak very much. My degree is in Biomedical Engineering (fixing medical equipment). Your tractor alternator/battery setup can tolerate a LOT more leakage current than a human on the operating table can; therefore we have sensitive equipment that can measure leakage in VERY small amounts. But is ALWAYS there. A battery that is overcharged will build up conductive deposits that will discharge the battery much faster than the leakage current through a good alternator. Dirty batteries cause much grief, and the corrosion monsters never sleep. |
Posted By: albatros_3
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 7:31am
| I'm late to this topic but for tight areas, I highly recommend using an alternator from a Datsun pickup as I like the braket options over the CS130. They are very popular for 12v conversions on Farmall Cubs. This is also called the Hitachi alternator conversion although alternators may be Mitubishi made. Jump over to RockAuto and search for part number 14231 (or 14255 for the more powerful version). I have used them on two cubs and two Super As. They are not oddly large like a GM SI alternator. The only hard part is making the harness for the excite and sense circuits. I run two wires from a keyed power source. One wire has a 1N4004 diode tied in to the "L" terminal if you don't want a light installed. The other is just a wire for the voltage sense. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 8:15am
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Most Alternators today don't have the diode leakage that the cheapies had years back. Once in a while you do come across one that will leak down super slowly, and can eventually take down the Battery to almost dead. It's always good to have a shut off switch on the Battery if you're only using a particular Tractor for certain chores and it sits quite often... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |