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TS 5 hydraulic pump question

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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=190934
Printed Date: 06 May 2024 at 7:14am
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Topic: TS 5 hydraulic pump question

Posted By: doctorcorey
Subject: TS 5 hydraulic pump question
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 12:41am

Discovered today that the pump on my 'new' HD6G is part numbered (2025G1B1) as being originally issued on a TS 5 . P/N 2996. I wonder if anyone here could tell me the specs for this pump or the TS5 hydraulic system, especially GPM and relief valve settings. On a side note, I also discovered that I have control valve assy. 26403, which I have not found a listing for as of yet. I discovered that the main relief valve is adjusted all the way in, never a good sign.

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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel

Replies:

Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 7:13am

From what i have read the 5s were about 35 gpm a little less than the 40gpm of the 6g. 6g relief is 1200-1400 psi. 5 should be similar

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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 8:29am

CAL(KS) wrote:

From what i have read the 5s were about 35 gpm a little less than the 40gpm of the 6g. 6g relief is 1200-1400 psi. 5 should be similar

Thanks CAL, I'm sure missing that extra 5GPM! With the normal 'slippage' of these sloppy old systems, right now I can get 750-800 psi when stalling out the dump cylinders. Can't use the power down 'cause I'm now stuck up against a utility pole because of the stuck tracks. When I used power down last week, it rolled the machine forward about 2 feet, and now I'm fighting to roll it back so I will have room to run the boom. I'm hoping worn packings have something to do with this problem.

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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel

Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 11:34am

you could pull the pump down and check the end cases, if they show wear you can have them milled or planed back flat but you cant do anything about the gear wear. i would hate to price a new pump capable of 40gpm. and i would say that pump pressure is way to low. its possible something is stuck in the relief or the spring is broken?

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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 12:19pm

CAL(KS) wrote:

you could pull the pump down and check the end cases, if they show wear you can have them milled or planed back flat but you cant do anything about the gear wear. i would hate to price a new pump capable of 40gpm. and i would say that pump pressure is way to low. its possible something is stuck in the relief or the spring is broken?

I'm sure it's quite possible that the relief valve is funny. As I mentioned earlier, the valve assembly is not the correct one for this machine, according to the parts book. Relief valve is all the way in. Maybe this valve assy. is relieved at this low setting. I've ran the numbers but can't find out what machine this valve belongs to (26403) Hydreco. It's the 'old style' simple spring pressure type, Not sure how to take it apart yet. I have to determine how that valve sleeve is retained in the housing. Parts book doesn't give me the usual clues. May have to heat that big nut lightly to get it loose. The giant hex plug on the back will definitely need a little heat. I only directly heat the plug, not the housing. If indeed the spring is broken, good luck trying to find one.....Thanks

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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel

Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 1:55pm

i know the 6g had an early and a late style relief valve, but i believe the late style superceded so it was a replacement part also. but definitely get that squared away and check pressure before tearing into the pump

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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 7:10pm

believe it was 37 GPM on the Hydreco pump and relief valve on the HD5G was 1200#
Yes pump wear can create a problem , I use to be able to drag RPM way down to almost stall with the loader at full cycle up leaving control in raise position lock
Roll back on bucket also would slow engine if held on = 50 years of use without replacing pump seems to have effected it - but 50 years of use has effected me also = well add 28 more to that 50

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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 10:06pm

Coke-in-MN wrote:

believe it was 37 GPM on the Hydreco pump and relief valve on the HD5G was 1200#
Yes pump wear can create a problem , I use to be able to drag RPM way down to almost stall with the loader at full cycle up leaving control in raise position lock
Roll back on bucket also would slow engine if held on = 50 years of use without replacing pump seems to have effected it - but 50 years of use has effected me also = well add 28 more to that 50

I pulled the front end nut and spring out of the valve assy relief valve. Notice someone had added a washer, appx. 1/8" thick, to the spring. Another trouble sign.....tried to pull valve out of seat, wouldn't budge. It should slide buttery smooth....Got the huge hex plug out of the rear, after welding a socket to it. Took around 200 ft/lbs to turn it. Used a brass punch and gently tapped valve out the front. I had rusty residue on the valve, and the face is chipped/eroded. I don't think it was stuck open but did have fine 'glitter-like' debris on valve face. I don't think this valve has to be open much to drop a lot of pressure. Cleaned and lubed the valve, and it now slides freely. At least now I know it CAN open if it has to.

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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel

Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 10:12am

In the up position does the loader hold?

Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 2:32pm

Lee Bradley wrote:

In the up position does the loader hold?

Hi...yes, the boom raises well and stays up reasonably well. I loosened the rod side fittings with engine off and boom up (unloaded) and no fluid squirted out, so seals are OK on the lift rams. Now I can't raise the boom because I'm up against a tree with stuck tracks. Machine moved about 2 feet forward when I was testing pump using power down. It didn't want to lift the front of the machine very far, but it certainly rolled those stuck-from-H#$l tracks. I seemed to have gained about 100 psi of pressure after cleaning the relief valve. All I can test right now is with the bucket stalled against the stops. Smile

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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel

Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 3:08pm

The bucket tilt power to move machine is limited by the leverage configuration of loader frame design . You should be able to lift machine with bucket in full tilt to unload position and down pressure to loader lift cylinders .
Stalling the bucket cylinders in the lift or dump is easily done as cylinder size and pressure is limited .

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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."