190xt power director pressure
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=187587
Printed Date: 13 Aug 2025 at 1:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 190xt power director pressure
Posted By: John m
Subject: 190xt power director pressure
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 1:05pm
| I think this sucks but. Replaced all torque housing gears, visual check of power director plates and clutches, replaced clutch hub, replaced clutch hub sealing rings. I have checked the power director linkage, everything is tight not bad bushings or anything. It is giving full stroke to actuating valve. I hooked up pressure gauge to the Allan head test ports. I am only getting 11 bars (159.5 lbs) of pressure. Drops to 2 bars (29 lbs) of pressure in neutral. If I leave the clutch out with transmission in gear I would stall the tractor out even with power director in neutral. I did rebuild the hydraulic pump, the three point and power steering work as it should. Pto works great, it is a hydraulic pto. I'm really hoping I don't have to split this tractor again. Anybody got ideas, I got my fingers crossed. And the hydraulic oil is to full mark. Thanks, John m |
Replies:
Posted By: Ky.Allis
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 1:16pm
| Well I'm certainly no mechanic but I'm guessing the problem is the PD valve is sticking. My 200 acted similar and after removing the valve and dissembling it and a good cleaning and light honing it worked perfect. I was amazed at how much crud had built up in it. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 1:26pm
| Thanks, sure hope that's the problem. I was just sitting here looking at it. Guess I'll pull that apart and look at it. Thanks again, John m |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 9:22pm
|
Sounds like a plate is not splined on a hub or gears in PD are not matched. If I read your post right, it killer's the engine when you let foot clutch out no matter what posion gearshift or PD is in. Right? MACK
|
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 7:17am
| When in reverse the tractor moves rearward or when in a forward gear tractor moves forward. There is no neutral no matter which position the power director is put in. If the gear shift is placed in neutral then there is no movement when clutch is left out. It's like the power director just stays locked up. I checked the pressure at the Allen head test ports and I only have around 150 lbs. in high or low. About 20 or 30 lbs in neutral. I was going to try and pressure check the actuator at the input line and see if I even have more than 150 lbs coming from the pump. Sorry if my explanation is confusing. Thanks, John |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 11:27am
| Your pressures are way to low- and there is something internal going on - there has to be 0 to 30lbs of oil pressure in the Powerdirector neutral |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 12:05pm
| Did you actually disassemble the P.D. clutch ?? How did it work before you took the tractor apart ?? |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 4:23pm
| It worked good before. Just put a new housing in that the three sealing rings ride in and the new sealing rings. The plates/ clutches snapped back and forth when I checked it with air pressure. Think I need to check the pump pressure and be sure I have enough pump pressure. Then work towards the power director to start eliminating where I'm losing or lacking pressure at. Good power steering and three point works. Got me baffled. Never disassembled the PD Thanks, John |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 4:45pm
| But, low pressure has nothing to do with serious creeping, if I'm understanding the complaint correctly. All low pressure would cause is slipping under a load. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 4:59pm
| So your saying the clutches in pd are stuck? Either in low or high? I guess I am associating the low pressure would lock one side of the clutches either high side or low side. Wonder if I should take it for short ride and attempt shifting it? I've only let it go a foot in either direction cause it's in the garage yet. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 5:29pm
| I wouldnt do nothing till you get the pressure up ! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 5:46pm
| Start it up. Leave P.D. lever in neutral. Set both brakes hard. Place transmission in road gear. Let out the clutch. Engine will labor some from "creeping" which is normal to a degree. If it kills the engine you have problems. Again, low pressure ain't causing this. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 5:50pm
| Ok Doc, I'll try that next and see what's happening. Thanks |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 5:55pm
| How does the power steering work?? |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 6:07pm
| I just went out to the garage and put the power director in neutral, put it in high gear with a little throttle, I left the clutch out. I held both brakes and the engine bogged down a little and kept running with clutch out. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 6:08pm
| Powering steering works great. One finger turns |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 9:27pm
|
Pull side cover and look at PD. Plates should be evenly spaced apart. If not, you have some warped divider or broke plates. Any time a PD is out is a good time to take it apart and check it out and reseal it. Sounds like broken plates piling on top of each other. Resealing might take care of your low pressure. MACK
|
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 9:31pm
| What do you mean by reseal? I did put the three sealing rings in and new housing that bolts to trans for pd. Are you referring to the seals inside the pd? Thanks, John |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 9:54pm
Have no experience with that model but with hyd clutch packs there has to be piston seals in the pack. I am suprised you didn't think to go there. I know,it was working fine...BUT YOU WERE THERE!!! Seals get old and hard over time. Wonder how long they have been there? For future reference,any time your that far in you do clutch seals period. 7 & 8000 series PD tractors the same. If it's split you pull the PD out and reseal unless you know when they were done Last. Can save some clutch parts because it won't be slipping/heat/warping plates. Only my opinion/experience.
|
John m wrote:Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 7:10am
| Four piston ring seals plus two orings. MACK |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 7:22am
| Thanks Mack. Ive been reading through old posts half the night and I think I may be on to the problem. I think I may have damaged the pd when aligning the torque housing and transmission. I had to keep turning the pd and input shaft to get it together and remember it was a bugger to get together. I read one post about three in the morning where someone damaged theirs that way. I'm leaning towards splitting it again and see if that's what happened. Wish there was another way to be sure but I don't know of one. PD worked great before I exploded all the gears in housing. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 8:10am
| I think that if you pull the plate back off of the side,you will see that the clutch plates aren't free to move around. Use air to test the movement of the pistons. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 8:23am
| Piston stroke should be equal for low and high side when air checking. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 8:25am
| Taking plate and valve off now. I'll check with air and report what's happening. Thanks |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 9:53am
| Doc Mack. I removed valve and plate from right side to look at pd. The front portion I can move the tab ends of plates with my finger. The rear tabs feel tight and the springs appear collapsed. I spun the director and checked it all around and it appears that way all around. I put the rubber tipped air nozzle on both small tubes and gave it air. Air is coming out of the divider both at the very front portion by the plates and at the rear portion by the plates. The front portion does move with air, the back portion moves very little. I know by using my finger the front set of discs are definitely loser than the rear. Sorry if I'm confusing with my explanations. John m |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 9:58am
| And I can see no broken or over lapping plates or discs. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 10:40am
| But, you have an internal problem. The free movement of the separator plates on the front (low) section is the way it should be. Warped or broken plates/discs will make things like they are in the rear (high) section. This is what's causing the excessive drag. Maybe caused by low pressure from before, which will allow slipping under a load. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 10:49am
| Thanks Doc. Looks and sounds like I'll be splitting it again. Kinda weird though when I had pd out and on the floor I put air to both fittings and there was no air leak. Both sides just snapped back and forth. I thought maybe I had something in a bind. Oh well, guess I better get to work. Thanks, John m |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 9:12pm
| Replace all the hi side plates from 7000 plates. Don't have # but can get it later or Dr. has it in his head. MACK |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 9:23pm
| Thanks Mack, I've seen some of his posts saying that's what should be used. I'll definitely go that route. I'll probably have it apart tomorrow. Got everything ready so all that's left is pull the bolts and split her. Thanks again, John m |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 9:24pm
| Agco 70257913 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 6:28am
| 7000 drive discs, not the separator plates....70261212. They will never split and break. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 7:16am
| Thanks Doc, that's the ones I'll be sure to get. I appreciate your help. Is there any specific manufacturer? |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 9:39am
| I see there's Tribco and A&I and a Reliable. Or do I just make sure it's that part number? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 9:49am
| 70261212 is the AGCO p/n. If someone can match that p/n I have to assume it's the same part. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 10:18am
| Ok, thanks. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 10:32pm
| Buy good parts. It's too much work to do it again. |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 2:17pm
| Well I got the tractor separated and pulled the pd out. I marked the sections so I can put them back the same as they were. You were right. The discs and plates are warped on the rear portion of the pd. Front portion looks great. I assume they got hot? I'll order all new seals, o-rings,7000 clutches for hi and low. Plus the new plates that are warped. Sure appreciate the help. John |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 6:41pm
| If proper clutch pressure is not maintained, due to worn linkage/poor pressure setting/internal leakage, etc, and the tractor is placed under a heavy enough load the clutch may slip. It can only tolerate a certain amount of slippage until it gets hot and warps the clutch discs and plates. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 8:39pm
| What breaks hi side plates is vibrations from the reduction gear on torque tube shaft gets loose on splines, setting up a vibration. MACK |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 8:54pm
| That's the gears inside pd right Mack? |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2022 at 7:05am
| No, it is the gear and shaft in torque tube. MACK |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2022 at 7:43am
| Those have been replaced along with all the internals in the torque housing so hopefully I'll be alright. Thanks |