D17 III runs for 1 hour before running poorly,dies
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=183127
Printed Date: 03 Oct 2025 at 2:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D17 III runs for 1 hour before running poorly,dies
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Subject: D17 III runs for 1 hour before running poorly,dies
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 3:24pm
|
1961 Series 3 D17. Serial 42053. Shebler carb(TSX 771?). Point gap, timing correct. Runs strong full throttle for about an hour under a load, then starts to lightly miss. Gradually gets worse until engine dies and will not restart. Been doing this since I put another engine in it after spinning 2 mains in the factory motor. Same series block casting as original motor. 142 psi on all 4 cylinders. The tractor sat for several years outside. I put a kit in the carb, new sediment bowl assembly and flushed gas tank before the new sediment bowl. Still had too much crap in tank so I removed it, plugged the fuel outlet hole and cleaned the inside with muriatic acid. Flushed it and reinstalled tank with new web supports. I put a tube screen on the sediment bowl before re-installing it. Sediment bowl still gets a very small amount of rust particulate. Engine still would wind down and die and not restart. Let it sit over night and it restarted but ran poorly but long enough to get it back to my shop. I have taken the carb off each time and cleaned it even though could not find any issue. I have taken out the main jet and checked while in the field. Fresh fuel in tank with a can of Sea Foam. Good fuel flow out of line at the carb each occurrence. Today I cleaned the float and then original float valve seat with muriatic acid and then cleaned all jet orifices with drill bits. Thought maybe the new needle valve and seat might be the issue so I cleaned and put the original back in. Set the float height at 1&3/16 above gasket which is parallel too. Put another new scree in the sediment bowl. Same result. Would not restart. Tiny amount of sediment removed from bowl, screen was clean. Pulled/cleaned the load jet and checked the fuel line for flow. No issues found. Motor started and ran well enough to get back to the shop. 2 weeks ago I worked on the gas cap making sure the brass spring washer/seal was venting properly. Tomorrow I will drain all fuel and pull the sediment bowl to remove the tube screen. Think I will put a new set of points/condenser in. Cap looks great as does rotor. Put new wires on when replacing the engine, new brushes/bushings in starter & gen. Turned armatures. Radiator cleaned/sealed/painted. New regulator and water pump. I have owned this tractor for 30+ years. Frustrating after redoing nearly everything. May remove all screens and put one full flow filter inline. THOUGHTS? Thanks! ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 3:27pm
| Ignition coil is shot. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 3:38pm
|
Since it runs an hour, then dies when HOT.. then restarts when COLD.. DR is right, the coil needs replaced.. If you have an old gas tank that is getting fine particles into the carb, i would consider an INLINE FUEL filter for a year to get out the crud.. Then you can put your original fuel line back on.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 3:40pm
|
point and condenser are normally GOOD or BAD... If it starts and runs an hour, the condenser should be OK. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 4:21pm
|
I was thinking the coil is bad. If it is, you should look into why. 6v coil, 12v coil, is there an external resistor, is the resistor bypassed during starting. You already investigated the gas cap. If the gas cap is plugged, and causing vacuum lock, it will stop fuel flow. Only one time in my life did I come across this. Guy at work asked me why it would die after "an hour", I told him to run with the cap off. That was it, he thought I was some sort of genius. I said thank my dad. Nebraska tests show this engine can use up to 4.52 gallons per hour. Remove the drain plug at carb. Replace with brass barb fitting and clear hose. See if it will allow at least 4.5 gallons an hour to drain out. This is a test of the float needle/seat's capacity to pass gas. You can also check fuel level in the bowl with this hose (if clear), just hold it up above carb. to see the level. Where should this level be, I don't know. I think the others are right, the ignition coil is shot. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 5:02pm
|
I too think coil is most likely shot. If it we mine after replacing coil and sediment tube as you discussed.I would put a magnet in the sediment bowl, it will catch most all of crud. You did not state whether you sealed the tank. I would as much as you have rust problems. HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: allisorange
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 5:10pm
|
I agree with the Dr. Most likely you need a new coil. J Carlson
|
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 5:20pm
|
twice in the field after the engine died and would not start I pulled the coil wire from cap and tested. Jumped fired up to a quarter inch but not blue hot more orange. I have an old GM coil out of a 12v car I keep just for such purpose. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 5:23pm
|
I cut the metal line and put a small inline filter in before I cleaned the tank. Wishing I had waited to get a kit to seal the tank but needed it running asap. Took the filter out trying to increase fuel flow. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 5:29pm
|
I will drain the fuel through the bowl drain to see what the flow rate is in the morning. Like to see 5 gallons per hour. Work tractor, need to mow fields. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 6:21pm
I agree with those who suggested a bad coil... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 9:07pm
| Jumping fire 1/4" won't won't do it. You need 1" blue fire. MACK |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 6:20am
|
I knew my fire was weak from the color. I tend not to check fire at that distance with bare hands in the field. I have a coil on hand but it only has 1.3 ohms resistance. 12 volt positive ground tractor. I will pick up a new coil w/resistor this morning. If anyone needs AC Delco 45XL new plugs, I have a box of 8, never used. Happy to donate them for the help here. My new engine has an older head on it with 3/8" reach plugs. Ironically my engine had 3/4" reach plugs in it. Bought the 45XL's as I was going to rebuild my old motor but the damage was to severe to the block. Took them out to run a compression test before buying the engine. I noticed thread color changes mid-thread so I checked head threads depth. 3/8". 142 PSI all 4 cylinders. I adjusted the tappets at operating temp before sealing the valve cover. No smoke, no leaks. Motor was $700 from the retired dealer I bought the D17 from 30+ years ago. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 10:17am
|
Bad Coil... Series IV D17 had gone to the 4 post starter solenoid and external resistor and a full 12 volt coil for a reason, they started better in the cold season. Like Mack said weak spark won't cut it. Spark out in the open doesn't have resistance like it does in a cylinder under 140 psi compression and takes a lot more juice to jump. When coil is weak and you possibly (just a thought) put on carbon wires instead of solid core wire, that will increase your need for a hot coil too. Had a bad rotor once that started firing through to the shaft instead of to the cap, and the symptoms of that was it would start missing under load. Step the clutch in and it would start running again... but eventually it wouldn't run at all. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 11:18am
| Another thought to throw out there is how old is the distributor. I've helped 2 different buddies with tractors of this vintage with similar problems that had some side to side play in the distributor shaft and points not opening correctly. They had pretty much replaced everything. Doesn't take much to lose your clearance with a worn out distributor shaft/bushings. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 12:36pm
|
Thats true Greg... but he says it runs good for an hour, then problem develops. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 1:34pm
|
Fuel never made sense as choking as it started to run poorly had zero effect. I checked fuel flow and it is getting more than the rated 4.5 gal. per hour fuel consumption at full load. I ran out 1+ gallon thru the carb drain in 12 minutes with 3 screens in place. Itwould take 13.33 minutes required for 1 gallon to match 4.5 GPH. Tank was below 1/4 so it had minimum pressure head. 1 psi for every 2.33 ft of elevation. I put a new coil on. 12 volt, internal resister. Ready to go mow and see if it is fixed. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 1:42pm
|
Tracy: Great idea about the magnet. 2 days ago I used a strong magnet to check the inside of the tank for rust debris and got absolutely nothing. I have some very strong 1 inch by 1/4" cylindrical magnets and will put one in my sediment bowl. Made for home alarm systems installed in door edges. Very strong and rust resistant. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: AC 4 Ever
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 6:35pm
|
I believe the new coil fixed the problem. Just mowed for 3 1/2 hours. 6 ft Bush Hog 206 in mix of mostly giant blue stem. 3rd gear low range wide open. Heavy load. Never missed a lick, ran strong. Would have mowed longer but got a late start. The orange paint on my new coil was slow to dry. Thank you to all for your help/advice. I have 8 AC 45XL new spark plugs I would give away if someone would use them. They are old but never used, new in the 8 pack box. My preferred plug for 30 years but my replacement motor has a series II head with 3/8" reach plugs. ------------- Evaluate, adapt, and overcome! Necessity is the mother of invention! |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 8:10pm
| Good to hear. Lotsa knowledge on this site |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 11:15pm
|
AC 4 Ever, glad your problem is solved, and thanks for the report on your success. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 10:09am
|
Glad you got it going. We need a score card tally for the age old question of electrical vs. fuel malfunctions. Chalk this one up for electrical. |