Engine oil for new rebuild?
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Topic: Engine oil for new rebuild?
Posted By: AC720Man
Subject: Engine oil for new rebuild?
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 7:13pm
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What break in engine oil is being used on a diesel engine that normally runs SAE 30? Is it correct to run non detergent SAE 30 for roughly 50 hours? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: Boss Man
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 7:49pm
| I've all ways used the oil its gonna run and changed it at 50 hours |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 8:02pm
| Tend to agree with Boss Man. I don't do much of this so not an expert. A recent experience was 454 GM in a pickup. Bored 30,new pistons and rings and put 10w30 synthetic in it from the start. Never used a drop and oil stays clean. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 8:05pm
| 45 yrs ago, I was taught a 10 wt non-detergent. If you think about it, lighter weight is better for lubrication because it gets in everywhere easier than thicker viscosity oils, helping things to break-in. A rusty old nut on a bolt you use light penetrating oil, not 30 wt oil. So, anything lighter is better than heavy. 0W-20......10 wt......whatever. Non-detergent will be harder to find than detergent oils. I would think detergent would help carry the dirt to the filter to be caught where non-detergent might let the dirt fall and seperate into the bottom of the oil pan. Myself?? I just use what it's going to have in it when it's finally up and running. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 8:34pm
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My understanding is todays oils do not have zinc which is critical to engine break in. I found non detergent SAE 30 wt Valvoline. I also saw a zinc additive that you can add to the oil. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 9:32pm
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What is wrong with a 15w 40 detergent oil ?.... You got the CLEANING with the detergent and you have the 15W ( thin) for cool startups- good lube capability. ?? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DaveSB
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 10:14pm
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I worked as a diesel mechanic in a large shop for over 20 years, im not claiming to be an expert, but i have rebuilt a lot of heavy truck diesels. We would do at least 1 overhaul a week, not always me. But we just put our normal stock oil in it 15 w40 , nothing special. Then those engines were expected to run 700,000 to over a million miles, and they did. First oil change on them was at 8000 miles, which was way early for us. Those weren’t farm tractor engines, but we’re heavy duty engines that had to pull all day and night. We didn’t put any additives or anything but our regulator oil in them, and they lasted seemingly forever. Don’t know if that helps you or not, but that’s what we did. Was standard procedure. Good luck. ------------- 1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14 |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 5:33am
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I’ve been reading on the internet quite a bit on the subject and I’m just confused about what to do. My engine builder said non detergent SAE 30 and add some zinc which helps the camshaft, rings and lifters. I have used Rotela T 15w-40 in my diesels for a long time and have been very pleased. Not sure what determines the viscosity to be used in a engine? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 5:41am
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My new Cub Cadet had a 10 hr break in oil in it. Not sure what that was, but maybe small motor requires it. All these tractors built, I am sure they were put together at the factory, started up and on the way they went. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:03am
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hmm, this has got me curious... what oil do OEMs put in their machines when they build them ? Pretty sure most cars and trucks will have an hour or more on them before finally sold.Driven off assy line, parked, driven onto carhauler, dealership moves them around, etc. I'm thinking they put whatever is supposed to be there, no 'breakin oil',no '50 hour light use'.. either. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:24am
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There should be no need for a detergent oil in the beginning as the engine if done correctly should be spotless inside. My engine builder cooks the block to do a thorough cleaning so he is starting with a clean block and components. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Red Bank
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:39am
| I guess if that’s what the engine builder said then you should follow suit. I had a Ford 390 gas engine built and my engine builder said to run the zinc additive and with the rocker arm shafts I have in it I have to add the zinc. But on a Diesel engine I don’t know, I have built them and put rotella 15w-40 and ran them with no problems. I always thought the zinc was specific for the camshaft to break in properly on gas engines. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 7:10am
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I've had good luck with John Deere Break-In Oil. I think it is a 10w30? But it is formulated for remanufactured/rebuilt engines to help with break-in. Not very expensive compared to regular 15w40. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 7:39am
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I have a new camshaft and lifters, from the reading I’ve done that’s what the zinc is for. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 7:52am
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I run a fleet of bucket trucks and we use nothing but 15w40 Castrol in all of the big trucks. New & old. The pickups I use 5w30 synthetic. Our bucket trucks have way over 20,000+ hours on the engines with no failures. Our trucks don't put a lot of miles on them. Its more hours than miles, although some of our trouble trucks that run darn near 24 hours a day through two shifts have darn near 300K miles on them. I think if you put in 15w40 and use it from day one you'll be fine. JMHO. Today's motor oils have a lot more lubricants in them than 20-30 years ago.... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 9:10am
Probably the most important thing you can do is keep RPMS up in first hour of run time so cam can get plenty of lube. New cams in sb Chevy were to kept at 1500 rpm min at start up. |
AC720Man wrote:Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 11:47am
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JD break in oil is available everywhere and in gallon jugs. Use it on rebuilt engines because today's oil is so good with additive packages the rings may never seat. The zinc is for flat tappet cams, and like red bank mentioned, shaft rockers probably benefit from it too. Anything metal to metal will like zinc. The alloys in the new parts has also seemed to be harder. I never used to have trouble seating rings, but in the last 10 years it's been a big issue, kinda like the old days when they had chrome rings and chrome liners, they would have to use Bon Ami to help seal them up. lol! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 5:37pm
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When I rebuilt my WD engine I used Royal Purple Break-in oil. Though they're a synthetic company, their break-in oil specifically had a thin conventional base if that says something, with lots of zinc and phosphorus and no extra friction modifiers or additives. ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 9:47pm
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From what I have read Zinc is the key. I’m going to do some more research on this Valvoline SAE30 non detergent to make sure it has Zinc in it. Ed, my engine builder said the same thing as far as having a harder time breaking engines in with todays oils. That’s the whole purpose of this thread is to get some good information from anyone familiar with a new rebuild. I don't want to mess up a big investment by putting the wrong oil in it. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 9:49pm
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Bill-MN, I watched the Royal Purple video last evening and found it interesting. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2021 at 8:39am
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The JD oil is reasonably priced as well. Reliance has a specific break in procedure they recommend to prevent the failures like what many have been experiencing. Reliance offers a break in oil as well. I use Schaffer break in oil too in my own rebuilds. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Rod in MN
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2021 at 10:21am
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Hi, AC720Man, Your engine builder did he bore the cylinder’s. If so did he wash it block out after Boeing ? When I helped assemble are race car engine. We would wash the block out and still wipe all the cylinders with a white towel with oil on it and wiped out the cylinders till it can out clean we kept using a clean part of the rag till clean it may take 5-6 times to get all the metal from boring. It was done that way for years and never had a problem. Would run it at 1500 rpm for 10 minutes. We would run it one night on dirt track and change oil after that night and never seen anything in the oil Just what we did. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2021 at 10:53am
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Good point, I learned long ago to do this, but I use ATF, as it's high detergent. The tractor in question would have sleeves that were replaced though. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2021 at 8:21pm
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I'm with Ed. Use JD break in oil ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2021 at 9:42am
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I called Valvoline support line and the SAE 30 non detergent oil does have Zinc in it. I will look into the JD oil, but it sounds like the Valvoline should be fine. I looked at Lucas SAE 30 engine break in oil online and that looks like a good product as well. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2021 at 10:24am
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Well this has been crazy trying to make a decision as the more I research makes it even more confusing. Thought I was going with the Valvoline SAE 30 non detergent but called Valvoline back and it is not diesel rated. Spoke to local AGCO dealer and he reluctantly recommended the JD oil that ED mentioned. I guess I’m going with that. Ugh ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: orebaugh1949
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2021 at 12:26pm
| Check with your dealer |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2021 at 1:17pm
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The JD oil is readily available, and reasonably priced, not sure why anyone would question it's use. Just get it and be done! lol! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2021 at 3:30pm
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I used the JD breakin oil when I rebuilt my WD45. No problems. The zinc is more of a long term need/issue than during breakin. You won't notice increased wear from 50 hours without zinc, but you might after 1000 hours.
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2021 at 9:48pm
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Opposite of what I was told, ZINC is critical on startup and break in due to flat valve tappets running on the cam. Ring and sleeve break in also. You are correct that is crucial for long term. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |