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Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
Printed Date: 15 Oct 2021 at 8:38pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 -

Topic: HD-31
Posted By: Tad Wicks
Subject: HD-31
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 10:59am
Was the HD 31 branded Allis Chalmers or Fiat Allis? I know the 41 was AC and then became FA. Did the the 31 morph into the FD30?  I still have a sales brochure for the 41 when they first appeared in the 70's I was about 14 at the time and my Dad subscribed to Western Construction Magazine and they had a place you could check a box on an advertisement and the company would send whatever they had, Western Construction must have thought that I was some big operator because I got material on every crawler, every scraper, every loader, just about everything that had an engine and some things that didn't.Smile

Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 5:06pm
There are a couple of FD30's around here.  I'm told they are basically HD 21C's with a Fiat V8 engine.  I've driven one of them on a ferry.

Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 5:55pm
I'm pretty sure the 31 was in the "pipeline" when the merger happened but it wasn't released until 1976 as a Fiat-Allis product.  Later became the FD40 in the early '80s.  41-B became the FD50, and 21-C became FD30 as previously mentioned.  Production of these must have been in Lecce, Italy?  Not sure of the exact chronology of the factory closures in the United States.

Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 9:30pm
41 tractor came out first.. It had a 1710 Cummins V12 motor and full weight was about 80 tons.. 41 B was an upgrade mainly final drive work... Several years later FA wanted a "cheaper" big tractor to compete against others. Took the 41B and shortened it one track roller, same final drives, same transmission, used the 1050 Cummins straight six and called the tractor a 31... weight was in the 65 ton area.. Started calling them FD50 and FD40  sometime around 1980 -82.  Mid 1980s Fiat wanted to close the Springfield Illinois plant and move everything to Italy... Built a backlog of  FD40s and 50s and keep them in the plant to sell for 2 years..  All manufacturing tools were sold or boxed up and shipped to Italy... Not sure they ever go it going after that.. Sold the last of the FD50s about 1987..

The 21B turned into the 21C and it was later turned into an FD30 with a FIAT V8 truck engine about 1000 cubic inches.  Motor and transmission were shipped to Springfield and installed  in the 21C type tractor and called FD30... When the plant closed, the line was moved to Italy and continued to build.

Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 10:57pm
Ok....good info.....didn't pay that much attention after the Fiat merger and things started going south.  I know the smaller tractors up to about the 14 were in production in Europe...or Italy. What about the FD20 ...where does that puppy fit in?

Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2021 at 11:25am
There were a couple of fellows here locally that had FD30s and they were used primarily for ripping vineyard ground, if any of you have ever been around wine grapes and vineyards it is a constant one upmanship, a manhood wagging contest if you will. Should the local vineyard rip vine rows 18 inches deep with a 3T D7, then the neighbor would have to rip 24 inches deep and then cross rip and the next guy would rip 30 inches with a D8 and then 36 inches until somebody brought in 2 D9's to rip 6 feet and then 3 D9's and then a D10, it is just ludicrous, at any rate, they guys with the FD30's did very well with them, tough, dependable, seems like they proved to me what a great machine they really are. Nothing is harder on a tractor than ripping, up against the full potential of the machine 100% of the time and the FD's did every bit as well as the Cats and the Kumatsus if not better, one guy even had a TD25, which I always thought was a very good machine, very comparable to the FD30 in weight and ability but Lord help him if it breaks. I never could understand why the thought process was to bring bigger and bigger machines and run them solo when two smaller machines coupled would spread the load between the two and then have the ability to move them from place to place without special weight and width permits and finding a lowbed that will haul them and a crane is necessary to remove the blade and whatever other parts to make weight limits, a lot to deal with. Just thinking outloud

Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2021 at 11:55am
FD20 was the largest FIAT machine they made.  They were testing it in Italy while the FD30 was being tested in the USA.. They shared the transmission "Design" .. (FIAT). but i think the DF30 was somewhat bigger.. Older 21C, FD40, FD50.. all had transmissions designed and manufactured by TWIN DISC (USA).

Originally the Fiat V8 put in the FD30 was a large TRUCK engine and had a few problems with  fuel lines / crank case venting / dirt / bumping and pounding that you get in a dozer. After a couple years a lot of those problems were worked out... The original Buda / AC 844 straight six was a hard engine to replace.

Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2021 at 12:24pm
WinkCome on Tad your side the river you got all that hard pan, after ripping all that rain just sinks on in.LOL

Now my side you get anything more than 3 inches deep you bring rocks up by the 100's a ton per acre. LOL That's what you need the D 11 for some rocks the size of a D 10. LOL If the world every recovers from it's wine abdication and wants bread again the harvester operators on this west country can thank the wino's for getting the rocks out of the way. 

My uncle with liking of his old HD 21 got a FD 30 at the Paso landfill. He did not put many hours on it before he retired.  Sterling Diamond took a chance on it and found it would work all day on a 100 degree day unlike the 46a D8 he had. So as I understood it Sterling had 3 or 4 FD 30's. But since the cous who delivered fuel went to Idaho have not kept up with all that. LOL Don't guess Sterling is still working but maybe the SIL.

There was one soil science guy from Cal Poly told one citdot that ended up next door no ripping necessary  with adobe that had 3 and 4 inch cracks in it when he looked at it. But Wonderful Company has since bought it up and replanted as old vines are always wrong in some way. And ripped at least with a D7 high track.

Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2021 at 4:06pm
  HARDPAN way out here??   no, no  that is just petrified bulls---t LOL I don't know what Sterling did with his, last time I saw it, it was ripping at the golf course on Airport Road, Bim sold his to a vineyard management company, that was the last I heard of it. No doubt, when an owner- operator no longer cares for a machine and they put hired help in the seat, it won't be long before it has issues.  

Posted By: JohnColo
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2021 at 1:19am
I took a farm tour to California in the late 1990's, we went to a peach farm pretty much surrounded by vineyards.  The owner also grew grapes, someone asked him about the pile of vineyard material pushed up into piles a ways down the road.  There were a couple D9's sitting there.  He said the owners, a large wine company, don't remember the name, decided they had too much of one variety of grape and pushed it out to replant the newest and greatest new variety, even though the existing vineyard was only a few years old.  He told us he would watch what was being pushed out and plant that variety because in a few years, there wouldn't be enough of it anymore and people wanted that grape.

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