7020 leaking injector sleeve
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=178689
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 11:39am
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Topic: 7020 leaking injector sleeve
Posted By: 7060
Subject: 7020 leaking injector sleeve
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 4:33pm
| My I pulled my 7020 in the shop for what I thought was a leaking manifold gasket to find compression coming out of injector hole #1. Guessing it’s a cracked head maybe? I overhauled the engine 2 years ago and had the head planed, magnifluxed, valves redone, and the agco dealer install new copper sleeves in it while it was off. It gets used as an auger tractor and may have been overheated and nobody caught it or told me. What’s my best options? Older style head, any good shops left to weld and press new sleeves in? |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 5:54pm
| Leaking compression ??? Tighten up the two bolts evenly on the injector and see if the problem goes away. If so, monitor coolant levels faithfully to insure coolant isn't leaking into the engines combustion chamber. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 6:02pm
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I've run into this issue before, someone replaces injector bolts with something generic, which ends up being slightly longer, and bottoms in threaded hole before fully clamping the injector down in the hole. Easy enough to check it, back out one bolt, remove lock washer, and screw it back in, it should go all the way down easily. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 7:03pm
I tried tightening the bolts but I was afraid of going much more, they are the original Allen head bolts. The tractors been fine for 2 years and then after I got it off the auger it’s had what I thought was an exhaust tick. I put new manifold gaskets with stainless studs and spacers because I’ve had trouble with the manifold bolts backing out, but then realized it wasn’t the gasket. Ed you rebuilt the injectors for it, when I overhauled it. I can’t imagine how it could be leaking that much compression through around the injector unless the head is cracked, but either way I guess I’m going to be pulling the head. 
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 7:43pm
| 301 engines in 7010/7020 kind of have an issue with exhaust manifold bolts loosening at times. Muffler is too heavy. The OEM exhaust bolts are SPECIAL thread and a hardened flat washer needs to be used, not a lock washer, which can break. Check torque every oil change and eventually they will get rusted in place and not loosen. Before yanking the cylinder head, I'd sure at least try a lock washer under the head of each injector hold down bolt and oil the threads. Might have ran too long with compression squeaking by. There should be no copper washer/gasket on the injector tip end. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2021 at 8:01pm
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I would pull injector, clean seat area and injector. Check for any Grove or foreign matter in sleeve. Use lapping compound to seat. If sleeve is leaking, it will put compression in coolent, not outside . Have had nonseating injectors sound like a fart at idle. Usually tighten down. DON'T PULL head yet. MACK
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Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 7:19am
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I can confirm a leak around a copper sleeve from a crack in the head will cause the tractor to run warm and put compression in the radiator. That was my experience on my 7000. If you think you have a bad sleeve, pull an oil analysis and see what it tells you. It doesn't take burning much antifreeze to show up in an analysis. If you decide there is a problem with the head, I put an old style head on my 7000 and haven't looked back. If you do go this route, consider the following: - Make sure the 7020's thermostat and any other parts associated with the intercooler will bolt up before changing (I believe you have a dual thermostat setup vs the single thermostat setup on my 7000, so maybe a difference there). - The injectors will need new nozzles installed. I cannot recall if the 7020 ran bigger nozzles than the 190xt/200. If so, the size needed to support the OEM fueling specs may not be available off the shelf. The new nozzle is because the copper washer seat in the old style head is a different profile than the heads that use the copper tube. I'm still with MACK and Doc on looking further into making sure the injector is fully seated and torqued. Pull the injectors before the head and clean out the hole and check your seat before you get too far into tearing it down. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 8:17am
| I tried 3 washers under the bolts and torqued them down but it’s no better. It was a little low on coolant but I had a heater hose that was leaking too so I don’t know. If the bottom of the copper injector cup cracked, is it possible to leak compression out around the injector but not into antifreeze? I pull the pan plug and no water down there. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 8:36am
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yes, it could have pushed the bottom of the copper tube out. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Wade (IA)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 3:48pm
| Is there a specific torque for those injector bolts? Or just tight? |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 5:31pm
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Did you try to move the injector to a different hole to see if the problem followed the injector or stayed with that copper sleeve? Long shot, but better to try it now while the engine is assembled. If the coolant is low (even with a known potential leak), I'd definitely run an analysis of the oil. Very cheap source of knowledge. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 5:49pm
Evenly torque down to 12 ft lbs or 144 inch pounds. Most important is the back and forth drawing it down even. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Wade (IA) wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 6:07pm
| And the suggestion to add ONE WASHER was just to be certain the bolts were not bottoming out in the holes, thus not achieving proper squeeze on the injector tip into the copper sleeve. Three washers wasn't suggested. |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 9:32am
| I pulled the head off and took it to the machine shop. Number 1 injector was froze in the sleeve and the sleeve came out with it. The bottom seal was blown out as well. The head shop called and said my head had 4 cracks in it. I ordered another head from Allstate’s ag that was supposed to be a 7020 head but what came is a gleaner L2 head without injector cups. Instead of sending it back can I just change my injector tips on my Bosch injectors and use this head? |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 10:43am
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If I remember correctly when I changed my 7000 to the old style head without the copper cups, the injector nut was different. Ed did them for me. I cannot remember if the nozzle also had to be changed to a different model (I believe he changed them due to age when he had them). The 8000 series with 426's used bosch injectors as well, so that may be an option to find a bosch injector nut that fits an old style head. Also, the 185s had bosch injectors towards the end. I don't know if that came with the new style head, though? If not, that would be another model that has the bosch injector with the old style head. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 12:19pm
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Cody, your injectors are the Allis Chalmers holders(looked up invoice). So the Bosch/American Bosch won't work easily. I can change the components needed to make them work with the early head. The Bosch injectors have the inlet coming in the top and the return on the side with a small banjo bolt. To switch to Bosch injectors takes all different injection and return lines. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |