Are B & CA belt pulley shaft taper different?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=175250
Printed Date: 10 Jun 2025 at 1:06am
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Topic: Are B & CA belt pulley shaft taper different?
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Subject: Are B & CA belt pulley shaft taper different?
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 3:52am
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This is on a 1938 Model B. I bought a Woods 59 belly mower from a friend he had it mounted on a CA. He said it was built for a B and C, I have the factory Woods manual with it and it shows B and C in it. For the CA he built different brackets to make it work on the wider CA. I always thought C and CA were the same? We have a CA. I have never been around a C. I took his brackets off and everything bolts right up to my B. The only thing that does not work is the pto pulley. It seems the shaft on my tractor is too small the pulley goes on too far. I needed to use the mower so I flipped the pulley backwards just to see if it would work. By hand it works fine but once I turn the pto on slowly releasing the clutch the belt starts coming off because the drive pulley is not lined up right. Do they make tapered shim bushings or can I use some shim stock? Or do I need to find a different woods pulley? I dont have any shim stock but tomorrow I might attempt to ghetto fab it with some gorilla tape as a shim. I didn’t measure the shaft or factory flatbelt or woods pulley tapers yet but will tomorrow. 
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Replies:
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:06am
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never had one BUT.. that belt looks like it has a LOT of twists in it ! Not sitting nice in the pulley and 2-3 twists on the left side down on the white mower deck. I'm sure others who have your combination will respond soon.. it just doesn't 'look right' to me.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:07am
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#1 The taper on the belt pulley shaft for the B,C,CA and early D10/12 tractors is the same and the pulleys are interchangeable. #2 if you have the manual for the WOODS belly mower, Carefully read and reread the section of the proper installing the belt with all the twists in the proper place. There are ways to put the belt on with the wrong amount of twists in the wrong place and it will immediately throw the belt off. When everything is done exactly as stated in the manual the belt will run just fine. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:05am
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That pic is just of it climbing out. I had the belt in there right. 1/2 twist from deck to rear idler and 3/4 twist from power pulley to front idler. I will try the pulley again. I just wondered if the early Bs might have been smaller for some reason. Mine is #2000 something. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:08am
| That drive pulley is on backwards like >< instead of <<. If the drive pulley was half and inch closer to the right it would work. I did speed the deck up to 1/2 speed and it stayed on like in the pic but I did not want to damage the $80 belt so I stopped. |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:30am
| Your pulley hits the PTO housing before the nut is tight ? Is that the problem ? |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:49am
Yes sir. |
Nathan (SD) wrote:Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:51am
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I dont know how "loose" the pulley is on the shaft.. If it is just a small amount, maybe you can grind the face of the pulley hub so the pulley will slide on a little further ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:53am
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The early B has a DIFFERENT size SHAFT I had both shaft size PULLEY's for the woods drive belt. will have to check shelf . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:55am
Thanks Fred I will buy it if you will sell it. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:56am
The side that would need to be ground is already flush with the spokes. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 9:17am
The factory pulley is 1.165” on big side. The Woods part 7450 is 1.3”. The shaft is 1.175” at the housing.
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Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 9:21am
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Grinding will not work because of shaft SIZE !!!!! Had a customer put a woods mower on his early B and I got the correct pulley from woods dealer .He later sold the mower and the guy that bought used the later pulley . If u have another B sitting around for parts swap out PTO UNITS . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:32am
I dont have any parts tractors. If you find that pulley can you let me know the part number on it. Maybe I can find one on ebay. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:40am
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If I have it i will sell it to you , Thanks ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 2:14pm
| 10-4 thank you good sir. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 4:02pm
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You can tell by the hand brakes and the clutch pedal that this is a rather early B. I would bet it would be a 30's B. Yes Fred there is probably a difference in the belt pulley shaft Hope you have one. KUNGFOOMASTA-, Congratulations of keeping one of my very old favorites - the B - alive and running. I would be pleased to see pictures of your unit. You should be very proud. Good Luck! Bill Long
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Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:07pm
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I will get some. It does not have any tin on right now. I wanted to make sure it is going to run good before I put it on. It is pretty straight and rust free. It must have been repainted at some point because there is bondo on the grill surround. I dont plan to repaint it until I get a shop built big enough I can store it inside. Im going to order a new seat and steering wheel for it so my hands stop turning black. When I got it it had not ran in years but it turned over so I figured it would run if I could get spark. I cleaned the mag up and set the timing according to someone on this site and could only get it to start by pull starting it. When I did get it to start it had no oil pressure. I put a T at the oil pressure guage and used a yard sprayer full of oil to prime it. Then I never got it to start again. I couldn’t hand start it. It sat since last summer since I did not have time to mess with it and my step dad told me to advance the timing just a bit and I did and was able to get it to hand start. It also had oil pressure once it did start this time. Now I can start it within 5 quarter cranks usually. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:28pm
Here it is where I found it. Behind a neighbors garage. He does not know how long he has had it. He claims it ran when he parked it but i dont know how. None of the spark plug wires were in the right spot even.
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Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:18pm
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Thanks for showing pictures. Really looks good for an older unit. Check the serial number to determine the age. It is by the gear shift lever to the rear. At this age has probably been well painted over. May have to clear for reading. I understand there is a serial number list on this page. If not let me know I have a list. The 30's B serial numbers go from 1 - 33983. If you are looking for a newer PTO unit for a B-C there are two on e-bay. In fact one has a v belt pulley attached. Take good care of my favorite
Good Luck! Bill Long |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:54pm
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For its age, that is one great looking B. The tires are worth a lot, they look new! You got a great deal there. I hope you get it all figured out, they are a great 'lawnmower'. ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 5:15pm
| I cant remember the exact number but its #28XX. It is not the super early ones with a Wisconsin engine it has the Small Allis engine. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:16pm
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FYI Ser. 2802 is in the Owner Registry. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:45pm
2854
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Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:51pm
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allis-Chalmers-C-B-Belt-Pulley-PTO-Assembly-With-Hydraulic-Pump/293425707166?hash=item445188f89e:g:hI0AAOSwLfxeH0mp" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allis-Chalmers-C-B-Belt-Pulley-PTO-Assembly-With-Hydraulic-Pump/293425707166?hash=item445188f89e:g:hI0AAOSwLfxeH0mp If I got this one would I be able to have hydraulics on it. Where would the tank mount? I dont think Bs came with hydraulics. Did IBs come with hydraulics? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 7:22pm
that housing should fit a B or a C tractor.. The SUMP is the oil cavity. Holds a couple extra quarts of oil in the transmission / bevel gear box.. The HYD valve is the thing on the right side of the case.. The PUMP is part of the valve and is inside the case... all held on by 4 bolts. Since this is a very LOW VOLUMN pump you can run ONE cylinder of 1-2 inch diameter to lift a plow / blade / ect... It is not for a front end loader with cylinders 3 ft long. When you slide the housing onto your bevel gear case, the internals drive off the top shaft of the transmission.. You have to have the motor running and clutch engaged ( foot off pedal) for the unit to run.. Push in the clutch and it STOPS. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 7:24pm
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it says NON RUNNING, so i would assume you will have to pull the pump / valve and disassemble / clean / reset......... it may not work properly in present condition. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 7:33am
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Did not find small shaft pulley ,called customer he dose have it ,but want to hold on to it right now just in case he get's the idea to buy another mower for tractor .The pulley was over $125. from woods dealer . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:32pm
Oh ok thank you good to know. My dads ca has that I always wondered where the hyd tank was. It would be nice to have some hydraulics. I want to build a small pull behind box blade. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:33pm
That might be more than I want to do. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:34pm
Thank you Fred. No problem. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:37pm
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I dont know how to multi quote on here. Would it work to pull the pto unit off my dads CA to borrow? He does not have any belt powered implements. Only a small 3 point point bush hog. Would the center pto splines be the same from my early B to his CA? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:52pm
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If your dad has a 3 point hitch, then it runs off his hydraulic pump which is part of the PTO unit/ housing.... The pumps do not interchange between the CA and the B... so i assume the HOUSINGS are different and the pump drive internal is different ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:53pm
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your best bet is to got to WOODS and buy a pulley for the original B shaft, or buy a pulley with a 1 inch bore and have someone machine the taper to the smaller shaft.
maybe call these guys and talk about the "old style " pulley. https://store.germanbliss.com/woods-l59ac-b-1-allis-chalmers-b-undermount-mid-mount-rotary-cutter-mounting-frame-assembly-parts https://store.germanbliss.com/woods-l503ac-b-allis-chalmers-b-undermount-mid-mount-rotary-cutter-mounting-assembly-parts" rel="nofollow - https://store.germanbliss.com/woods-l503ac-b-allis-chalmers-b-undermount-mid-mount-rotary-cutter-mounting-assembly-parts ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 1:46am
| Ok I will try that. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 3:44pm
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I called them and they didnt know what I was talking about. I ended up finding a pto unit at a local tractor salvage it even has the hydraulic pump. I put it on yesterday and it works. Now I can mow. Not sure how the hydraulics work right now it is open but not pumping fluid. It has a thing that turns two ways I figured it is for kicking it on or off. Right now it is not spitting fluid out so it must be in the off position. I will put a bucket under it and rotate it the other way and see what happens. For now I will leave it in the position that its not pumping and put a plug on it. I just dont want to run it dry or hydro lock it. 
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 10:03pm
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there should be a rod about 8 inches long pointing straight forward under the seat... You pull that UP and it engages the PTO shaft and drives the hydraulic pump.. The pump just circulates oil until you move the SECOND lever. I dont see it in your photo, but on the side of the pump / valve there are two round discs, one on top of the other, about 2 inches in diameter.. The ENGAGE rod hooks into the inner round plate and rotates it... In the center position is HOLD... rotate one way and you get OIL OUT of the pump... rotate the other way and you get FLOAT DOWN ( oil returns from the hose/ cylinder back into the pump cavity....... the round disc should be spring loaded and set in the CENTER position if everything is loose.. It may be rusted and need to be sprayed with WD40 ... or it may need disassemble and cleaned internal.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 10:18pm
the photo below is an exploded view of the B hydraulic pump / valve... the two discs you are playing with are #34 and #33... spring #14 allows them to move seperate of each other.. The ROD #7 moves plate #33 and as it rotates it grabs #34 and rotates it also.. They must move freely and not stick to each other..... Items #24 are the PISTONS.. it is a piston pump... the "valve" portion is all the parts on the top of the photo. If it has been dry or dirty oil put thru the valve, you can have sticking of the spools.. Externally you can get rust / sticking / binding of the plates. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 10:23pm
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The valve bolts on with 4 bolts/ studs... One option if you are not using the pump is to remove it and bolt a 1/8 inch thick plate over the hole to cover it and keep the oil inside... then you can play with the pump on the bench........... get the manual if you are disassembling the pump. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: KungFooMASTA
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 5:06am
| Right on. Yeah It had those plates and I can move them Separately by hand.I will probably pull it off and make a plate until I find a reason to have hydraulics on it. I will need to pull this thing all apart someday before I paint the tractor to put new seals in anyways. |
Posted By: JCSinPITTS,PA
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 11:36pm
| this is GREAT! I can finally help someone! i am going thru this right now. I got a used WOOODS L59 mower and the white pully will not fit my shaft. if you read closely the WOODS manuel addresses it and says you need to get a newer PTO with the bigger shaft. the way i understand is the rear and side shaft were small, then the side shaft got bigger and finally the rear (PTO) shaft was bigger also. there is also shafts with the lobes to run hysdraulics. i took another pto to SANDY LAKE IMPLEMENT to get the PTO box checked out before installation. Im currently waiting till i can get tractor outta shed to install mower. probably will not get belt and stuff installed till spring. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 6:40am
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The pulley was available at one time for the small shaft .Because. My customer got back to again this week and is selling his B now, so if he gets it sold , I will be getting the pulley (for small shaft ) that I got from Woods a few years ago for him. When I do I will post it in Classified . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 12:42pm
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JC... the original B came with a 6 spline PTO rear shaft of 1- 1/8 inch diameter.... They later changed to 1- 3/8 inch diameter which is a "standard" for a lot of older tractors... You can buy an adapter sleeve to put over the smaller shaft if needed... Of course the larger 1-3/8 inch shaft in the new housing would be a better idea. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 9:24am
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Looks like Fred will eventually have the remedy you need to take care of that issue. To me, that would be the easiest thing to do. No pullin' yer' hair out. Purchase the smaller diameter shaft pulley and its a done deal.... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |