WD45 Timing Marks Mystery - Pix for Chris
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=170693
Printed Date: 05 Aug 2025 at 4:58pm
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Topic: WD45 Timing Marks Mystery - Pix for Chris
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Subject: WD45 Timing Marks Mystery - Pix for Chris
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 1:25pm
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I'm getting ready to check the timing on my WD45 and have run into something I didn't expect. I should add that I'm an amateur at this - this is my first attempt at timing an engine more modern than the ones in my Model A Ford. After removing the rectangular plate under the clutch, I started looking for the timing marks on the flywheel by rotating the flywheel with a screwdriver while under the tractor. I found a set - two marks roughly 2-2.5 inches apart on the flywheel. One had been highlighted with color; the other was not highlighted but an "F" was stamped beside it. Great, I thought. I then checked the positions of the pistons in the cylinders using a piece of stiff wire. #2 & 3 were all the way up, #1 & 4 were all the way down. I then hand cranked the engine around until #1 & 4 were up and rechecked for timing marks on the flywheel....and found a second set, exactly like the first set except that neither mark had been highlighted and this "F" was partly obscured by light surface rust whereas the "F" in the first set was completely visible. Does anyone know why the flywheel would have two sets of timing marks? Should I go with set #2? Related question: I think I have #1 cylinder on the compression stroke as the rotor is pointing to the distributor cap post for #1. Make sense? Thanks for your help! Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Replies:
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 2:01pm
You might try going back to this post.
------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
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Topic: WD45 Timing MarksPosted By: mruhlig77
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 2:17pm
| to add to your info.....when you have it at #1 compression and correct on the distributor...the set screw on the crankshaft pulley should be straight up....this is how find #1 when you do not have other clues.... |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:12pm
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I couldnt remember if the bolt on the front of the crank was straight up or straight down? Getting old! But doesnt the bolt location appear in the up position (assuming that is correct) on the compression and the exhaust strokes both ? Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:38pm
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x2 on Chris's question! Dusty, I'm not seeing a link to the post you mentioned. Can you add one? Thanks. Chris pm'd me that the flywheel may be used on two different engines and thus have two sets of timing marks. I will need to nail down which set to use based on what I see when I have #1 at TDC on its compression stroke. Thanks, everyone. Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:40pm
| So the one mark is TDC or zero. The “F” Mark is the is fire mark which is 30 degrees BTDC. That is the one you are looking for with your timing light. It has to be straight down at WOT. No fixed reference or pointer for it so a bit of guesswork. Just try to have it straight down in middle of window while lying on your back to see it. 😀 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:50pm
| So no mystery. Just like an automotive engine that has zero and a whole bunch of other marks. From 12 or 15 BTDC to 12 or 15 ATDC. All you are interested in is the F Mark. Don’t overthink this and make it complex. Factory marks. They were all like this. Zero degrees and thirty degrees. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 4:03pm
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Dave, Ed, has better detailed info than this old guy that watched my Dad just time them WD tractors by ear and feel and then send me of to plow 10 acres in the dark! But Ed, I think if you look real close on those old tractors there is a small cast pointer somewhere in the center of the hole you look in at the flywheel. Just a little triva thrown in there! Dave is doing a good job. And yes after timing a WD, a bunch of times, it gets easier. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 4:17pm
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The "F" mark represents "FIRE" for a Magneto. Dave has a Distributor, so I would think he has to go by the "T" or "TDC" on the flywheel not the "F". The 30 degree lag is for the impulse coupler to wind up. By TDC that impulse should let loose and fire the engine. No impulse on a Distributor.... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 4:19pm
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The one question asked, but I didn't see addressed is the issue of double timing marks. I, in my limited experience timing WD's, don't remember double timing marks. I could see no reason for such. But, in any case, you would want the no 1 piston on compression (I determine that with my finger plugging the plug hole), and accept whatever timing marks show up in the window. Then, you may need to do a 180 with the distributor, if for some reason some one in the pas has installed it incorrectly ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 4:54pm
| Steve the F Mark is 30 degrees BTDC on the WD45 with points. That’s where I set mine. I set it that way because my original owners manual that came with the tractor says so. Quote “ When checking timing with timing light the spark will occur when fire Mark is in center of inspection opening when engine is above 1000 r.p.m.” End quote. Tractor runs great, starts great in any temp and is good on fuel. Maybe the engineers knew what they were doing. Lol. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 5:57pm
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I've read (3 times now) the same manual that Ed quoted from. I like the sound of his results!! So I'll give that method a try. I did pull the valve cover to make sure that I was on the #1 compression stroke and found the TDC mark from timing mark set #2 right there in the middle of the window. And the distributor rotor is pointing roughly at the cap contact for #1. And I am seeing the pointer cast into the edge of the casting like Chris mentioned. And Ed's "don't overthink this" advice is good for me to hear as I have a tendency to do just that!! I'm getting there! I'm hoping to get the old girl timed tomorrow. I'm wondering if that flywheel was also used for the diesel engine...if so, perhaps the other set of timing marks was for that engine? Steve's thought about mag vs distributor brings another question to mind: were any WD45's made with a mag, or were they all made with distributors? Thanks for all the input, guys. Dave
------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:17pm
| All the WD45 gas were distributor and points. But on tractors this old some parts could have been changed. The WD’s towards the end had dist as well. Before that all mags. Do you know the history of it at all? But the double timing marks are confusing as Lou said. I may have to crawl underneath tomorrow and have another look! |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:39pm
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I know some of the background on each of the tractors I own or owned. But I was thinking that all of the WD45's were distributor fired. I'll be interested to hear if your tractor has double timing mark. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:50pm
| I will check tomorrow Dave. |
Posted By: mruhlig77
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:54pm
| Chris...you are correct..it could be 180 degrees off....but look at the marks and distributor...hand crank to turn motor to look... |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 6:06pm
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Good news! Timing check is done - here's how it played out: 1. My spouse did great work spinning the engine with the hand crank while I double checked that I had #1 at TDC. The '45 currently has no starter, so she drove the tow tractor to pull the WD45 up our lane on a slope so I could roll it down to start it. 2. Let the tractor warm up, pulled throttle wide open, and found my highlighted timing mark just a little off the mark. I used the Fire mark from the second set of marks I found - I'm going with the explanation that there were two sets of timing marks on this flywheel because it was used in different applications. I'd love to know if anyone else finds two sets or if I've got the only WD45 with two sets! 3. Rotated the distributor a bit - timing was even further off. Rotated the other direction and got it right on. Engine sounded pretty good to my uneducated ear! Now I'm back to dealing with the starter. I want to thank Sugarmaker who pm'd a lot of guidance to me and to everyone who responded on this thread.  BTW, I talked with Steve in NJ and we figured out that his comment about using the TDC mark to time the engine assumed that I'd be timing at an idle. He agreed with using the Fire mark if timing at 1,000 rpm as advised by the manual. So Steve and Ed (Ont) are on the same page.
 ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 6:30pm
| So Dave some more info. You really got me curious. I got mine in shop today. Got bottom plate off and cleaned things up a bit. Checked all around flywheel carefully with light and my $2 close up glasses. Lol. Gues what? 2 complete sets of marks!! They are exactly 180 degrees apart. Has a line scribed across flywheel and then then the F Mark which is exactly 3” from the other line. Same at the other side. Wonder if some one can explain that. Maybe doc or others can tell us? However Dave when you are using your light only the correct one will be visible. |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 6:32pm
| Did a little extra while I was there. Cleaned battery terminals. Removed and cleaned starter. Spins good now. Was starting to slow down a bit. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 6:34pm
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Ed - thanks for going to all that trouble! Glad your cheater glasses were working. So it's looking like the flywheel came with two sets just to confuse us flatland Yankees!! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 6:51pm
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Dave, You did real good. and now you can mentor someone else in the details of timing one of these old orange tractors. It seems pretty simple, and like someone said dont over think it. But I did the same thing on the first WD I had taken the distributor off of. I called Don(MO) and he walked me through the whole process in about 10 minutes. And we also talked about the weather and the grandkids!:) We need some pictures. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 7:36pm
| Ignition timing is to be adjusted to F-30 or FIRE with the engine RUNNING WIDE OPEN THROTTLE !! So, do it again with the engine running WIDE OPEN SPEED. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 8:17pm
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Dr. Allis, thanks for checking in. Timing was done with throttle wide open. I'll edit my earlier post to make that clear! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 8:53pm
| Doc what about the 2 sets of marks on the flywheel? Any idea on that? Thx. |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 8:56pm
| Sugar maker I found the reference mark thanks. Can’t believe I didn’t see that before. Thx. 😀 |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 1:05pm
Here are some pictures from yesterday's labors. First is the F timing mark. I've highlighted the mark in yellow and circled the mark and F in red. You gotta look closely to see the F. You can also see the white grease pencil mark on the side of the flywheel that I used for timing. I'm not sure why the white mark looks so wide - it's only about 3/16" in real life!! Next a couple shots of my helper spinning the engine while I watched the valves to make sure that I was at TDC on #1 and then aboard the D-14 we used to drag the '45 up the lane.   I have to say that I saw a lot of oil that had seeped out of the engine, apparently at both crank seals. It's mixed with dirt over the years - things are pretty grimy under there. I know there's only one way to cure those leaks...will have to watch Don Bradley's video on these things again!
------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 3:41pm
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Thanks for the pictures Dave. Yes good job. Still no ideas from anyone on why there is 2 sets of marks tho. Maybe the same flywheel worked on another engine or engine with timing window at top. |
Posted By: EdW
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 4:04pm
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My opinion on the two sets of marks is that they used this engine in generator sets and power units where you would not have access to the bottom like a tractor so you would have to time it from the top ------------- EdW |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 4:08pm
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Yes I think you are right Ed. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 7:34pm
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Dave, Thanks for the updates and pictures! Great to have a good helper on those things I dont think I could get my wife to pull me anywhere on a tractor!:) Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 10:08pm
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Thanks, all of you. It's been a fun project - you've all been a big help. Pretty clear why we all hand around on this Forum! Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |