D 15 rear tire toe out
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=170330
Printed Date: 20 Aug 2025 at 3:57am
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Topic: D 15 rear tire toe out
Posted By: ACinSC
Subject: D 15 rear tire toe out
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 3:31pm
| Seems to come and go . Hope this is not an early warning sign of a catastrophe . When I pulled the bull gear pan I could see where the gear had rubbed the inside of the pan sometime before I got tractor . Hope my fav son will post a picture . Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: WeisAC2
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 3:41pm
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Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 5:00pm
| Jack it up and push the tire top in and out. That's camber not toe it caused by bad wheel bearings. If the top of the tire moves when you push on it it's bad. On my C I was able to change shims on the spindle and tighten it up enough to make me happy. Changing the spindle bearings is a fairly involved task. |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 5:10pm
| Ok , thanks Dave . |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 2:37pm
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Have left rear tire jacked up . No movement when I push and pull on the top of the tire . Anything else I should do before I let tire down ? thanks !! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 2:46pm
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um, that's the RIGHT tire, the way I see it... My D14 was like that, 20 year ago. I 'cheated' only replaced the bearing 'race' and smaller 'cone'. Bigger 'cone' looked OK...Been fine ever since. OK, looking at it again, yeah left side( no muffler in picture...) sigh, I suppose I should get trifocals so I can SEE the screen.... getting old sux.....but at least i can B about it .
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 2:52pm
| When you had it jacked up did you spin it. If the rim isn't running true with the wheel center you should be able to see it when you spin by hand. Is the other tire a match and inflated the same. I assume the other tire is on the same concrete pad. If you have no grabbing crunching lurking or jerking and the wheel center isn't loose I'd run it till something breaks. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 2:54pm
| If that tire has fluid in it, Sasquatch ain't tough enough to wiggle that tire in and out at the top. Use your level with the tire just off the ground and again when on the ground. Much change in the level reading means there's a loose bearing. |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 3:44pm
| Now we're getting somewhere . Both rear tires are slap full of water . With a chalkmark on the concrete I can see in and out movement when I spin the tire . Thanks everyone ! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 5:37pm
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Be really, REALLY carefull when removing the tire !!! Dang things weigh 500#+ pounds and have a mind of their own !! Safety first !. I get tire 1.5" off ground, put 1" deck board underneath ( so 1/2" air gap) take all but 2 nuts off,THEN, when rim is free, remove last 2 nuts and SLOWLY roll tire away. Two healthy guys makes it nice to do just be sure to know WHERE you can run if (when) it decides to fall down. Do NOT try to 'keep her upright' ! when that happens...water weebles-wobbles so going snail slow is best. I must be getting old, paranoid about safety.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 6:41pm
| Point well taken Jay . I've had both of these loaded tires off and recruited my fav son to help me . I ain't no spring chicken either . Thanks !! |
Posted By: Straanger
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 7:35pm
Fav son? Seems to me you’d want to get your LEAST fav son to help. Just in case. 
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2020 at 8:01pm
| Fact is he's my only and most favorite son 🙂 |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 9:55am
| Followed the Dr's advice and this tire/wheel is a whole bubble different from just raised to lowered . guess I have a bad bearing ? Dunno if I should roll the dice or fix it ? Dumb question I'm sure . Should say other tire always looks plumb . Thanks ! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:35pm
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You'll never regret fixing the problem... Don't be this guy, at about 6:40, in the video.. [TUBE]swSLMDLHrKQ[/TUBE] ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:47pm
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Tractor tires seem to budge at the bottom depending on inflation. ------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:55pm
| Now I wish I hadn't watched that video Dave . Thanks anyway |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 2:52pm
| If I'm reading this right I can remove the rear wheel/tire . Then check axle for in/out movement . If loose , removing a few #70237929 shims should help ? This sound right ? Thanks !! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 4:34pm
| Took a couple tries but I have my wheel cribbed up where it's just off the shop floor . Soon as I recruit some help I'm gonna pull this loaded tire . Also have the inner cap pulled off . Thanks ! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 5:17pm
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just be careful ! keep two studs in to be SURE the rim is OFF the hub BEFORE wrestling it off... A very heavy, sloshy tire is INCONTROLLABLE when it decides to to 'walkabout' !! Slow and steady and safe..... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 6:23pm
| Yeah Thanks Jay . |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 3:19pm
| Fav son helped me pull this loaded tire today . I removed the cap screw , 3 shims , and 1 thick washer with a roll pin . Have no in or out axle play . Problem must be in the upper/main axle or bearings I guess ? I see where the washer #70228815 is scored/worn where the shim's been rubbing it . Should the roll pin be sticking out enough to prevent this ? Any advice is greatly appreciated . Thanks ! |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:29pm
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The roll pin is to keep the axle from unscrewing the bolt thru the washer. Roll pin should be thru washer and into the axle to do this. If washer has score marks, bearing or bearings could be bad. When in that far, I would replace seals and both cups and cones, on inner and outer . Bearings will have a slight preload on them when correct. If washer is bad, resurface it if only a little will clean it up, if not, replace.It will take a couple of tries to get it right. HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:07pm
| Make sure the four nuts are tight holding the axle housing to the differential case are TIGHT !! I've seen a couple loose over the last 45 years...….. |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:30pm
| Yeah Tracy the roll pin fits in the axle but i was wondering about the other side of the washer . The 3 shims have slots in them that maybe the roll pin also fit in . It's not sticking out now and that's where the washer's scored . Might be able to file washer smooth but I'll prolly just buy a new one . Was hoping I wasn't gonna have to pull all this apart but I still don't see what's making this tire lean so . Just checked those 4 nuts Dr allis . They're tight . Thanks to both of you ! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:38pm
| Just looked again at page 198 in Agco parts . Somebody put the shims on the wrong side of the washer . Can't believe 3 .005 shims are causing my leaning tire problem ? Thanks !! |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 8:21pm
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The shims are to set the preload of the tapered roller bearings. It is a must to have them correct. To tight will cause premature failure. Too loose will do the same. I would guess your bearings have been too loose as the movement of wheel and scored washer.If replacing the cups, they must be bottomed against the stop surface. When not done correctly, you can't set preload correctly. Then after a while of use and running, the bearings will be loose, and little to no tension on bolt and washer. This is how they get loose. HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2020 at 5:56am
| Thanks Tracy . I expected to see something loose or obviously bad , but so far it looks pretty good . I'll look at it some more today . Thanks again ! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 10:23am
| Made up a crude dial indicator . When I turn the axle flange it's about an 1/8" off . Guess I'm gonna have to pull this final drive apart . Any thoughts or advice ? Thanks ! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 5:52am
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1st make a couple COPIES of the 'exploded diagram'.. best to get them oily than the real book...... 2nd take a few pictures..for reference....just in case I'm thinking some bearing ain't still in one piece......BTDT... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:16am
| Yeah thanks Jay . Have the fender and platform out of way. Should pull the final drive soon . Hope I can see what's going on . |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 8:01am
| I see absolutely no need to remove the whole axle/final drive assembly. If there is a bearing out on the axle shaft, replace it right where it hangs. If the axle mounting surface isn't true, maybe the axle shaft is bent ??? Starting the tractor with the wheel off and spinning the axle in low gear (opposite tire BLOCKED so tractor cannot move) should give an eagle eye an idea if things are bent or not. There must have been a failure earlier in its life and maybe the inside bearing area of the axle shaft is bent from heat ?? |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 9:20am
| Don't like the idea of replacing bearings and races laying on my back under the final drive housing . All I lack to pull it is a shop crane that I can borrow . I do wonder if the axle is bent ? Thanks !! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 9:38am
 Here's my D14 drawing... when I replaced my bearing , I whacked off #31, removed #30 and I 'think' the shaft came out. probably removed the #24 'pan' into a kittylitter bucket( lotsa oil + NO drain plug...). Mind you this was 20 years ago. I KNOW I did NOT remove the final drive ! Something that big,heavy and messy...I'd remember. I did replace #16, seal, #17 brg cone, but not #18 brg cup.Be carefull with teh bullgear.. dang thing is heavy,oily and WILL fall to ground PDQ !! Once oil is mostly drained, use solid wood block and 'crib it up' so it don't surprise you !! Ask anything, I'll try to jog my memory for any other tips... Jay As long as the brakes are NOT oily, NO need to remove the complete final drive. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 9:42am
|
re: laying on my back under the final drive housing I didn't do that. I had solid wood blocks ( a tower of 8by8 pine) securely under the final drive wher ethe fender is attached. I sat on a small stool. It was OK for me even with L3-L4-L5 'problems'. If I have to go on my back, off come the bifocals...useless upside down, that's why I KNOW I wasn't 'laying down on the job'... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 10:00am
| Thanks Jay . I wanna see what the brake shoes look like anyway . Might as well pull the final drive while I'm this close . |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 10:04am
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if the seal is leaky, let me know, I've got two spares National make here.....somewhere... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 3:35pm
| Thanks Jay . I'm gonna call Brenda when I find out what all I need . |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 5:52pm
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finally found the seals... National number is 471765. They're about 1/4" thick, and the originals were 1/2" thick and no longer available,so I was told. These are #14 in the 'differential' drawing in the parts book, page 157. They go in #1, carrier bearing unit. I put 2 of the new ones in to replace the original. They fit fine and a 2nd seal on 'fresh' shaft is more protection for $5. I don't know why the shims have extra holes in them but they go at '12 oclock'. if you don't have the drawings, let me know, I can copy/email them to you. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: WeisAC2
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 5:53pm
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 6:18pm
| Fav son came through with pics again . Shoes don't look too bad . Thanks |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2020 at 7:57pm
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hek I'm impressed the brake drum came off !!! That's a HUGE plus.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 5:11am
| Yeah Jay , fav son said that didn't happen last time . Thanks ! |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 7:53am
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Thanks to you and your son for documenting the work with some good pictures. Having never been into one of these it helps to understand the brake systems. Brake shoes look good to me. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: WeisAC2
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 9:37am
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 10:44am
| Bull gear has a chipped tooth . Only thing I see wrong with the final drive . May just change the shoes and differental seal while I'm in here . Anything else I should do ? Thanks !! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 10:55am
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Any 'extra' steel in the pan ? A chunk 'tooth shaped', maybe some roller bearing sized metal ?? That bull gear is HEAVY BTW, so be careful.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 12:10pm
| Don't see any metal in the pan but I pulled and cleaned the bull gear pans not long after I got this tractor . Can't remember finding anything then . My memory ain't too good tho . Thanks ! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 3:41pm
| Hey Jay , I finally got on the right page and now I see that seal . Sure doesn't look the picture I have . Thanks ! |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 4:17pm
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Ac, Maybe I missed it but have you determined why this has the tire tilting problem? Sounds like your inspection has not found the issue? Has to be something???? Not trying to make more work for you. But I think I would take the bull gear out and inspect the bearings and shaft. You have it in the very best position to do that! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 01 May 2020 at 4:36pm
| Yeah Chris I never did find out why the tire/wheel isn't always plumb . Like the good Dr said the axle may be bent . Everything turns and looks and sounds ok to me . I may do the brakes and diff o-ring and seal and let it ride . Not like I'm farming , only use this tractor to harrow with a few times a year . Thanks !! |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 7:53am
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Good opportunity to drill the pans on the inside down low and have a thread-o-let installed. Any D-Series I get into the pans of, do every one of em' for future draining after removing my first pans years ago. Sometimes find them hard to get a good seal if someone else has been in there and got rough with them and distorted the flange mating surfaces. Sure makes it easy to drop fluids every few years on units used most. Works good for me and always wondered why A-C did not provide a drain plug on those pans originally.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 8:00am
| Drain plugs were never provided for three reasons: #1. a plug protruding from the bottom always has a chance of being hit by something and breaking off. #2. Cost. It adds to the build cost of the tractor. #3. Inspection. It forces the Tech to visually look at what is in the oil pan to determine if there is excess wear going on and can take care of it before it gets worse. It's the same reason most automatic transmissions on cars and pickups don't have drain plugs. They also have a 4th reason....there is a filter inside that needs to be serviced. Continuing to use that toothless bull gear is a bad idea. |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 8:04am
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Makes sense Doc but I have mine welded onto the side, as low as I can situate them squarely. Would not work on the very bottom but I have had no issues with them mounted down low on the inside.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 02 May 2020 at 8:43am
| Thanks Tim and Dr Allis . |