7010 slippage. Power director or torque limiter
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=169140
Printed Date: 17 Jul 2025 at 6:52pm
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Topic: 7010 slippage. Power director or torque limiter
Posted By: bleeds orange
Subject: 7010 slippage. Power director or torque limiter
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 7:01pm
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I have noticed using my 1980 7010 power director for 4 hrs straight disking when heading home up hill 4 high fast it acts like a truck does when the clutch is worn and slipping. Push button on floor for slow does it also but not as bad. In field disking in 3 low fast up a hill it seems fine. Thanks cory |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 7:14pm
| Fluid levels and then pressure check? |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:20pm
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Fluid good. Will check pressure |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:22pm
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do you lose hydraulics when it slips? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:26pm
| Yes everything works as it should. |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:27pm
| Sorry I mean no I do not lose Hydraulics. Everything works as it should |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:28pm
| Next time it slips stand on the brakes HARD and make the tractor stop moving. If your power steering quits......it is the torque limiter slipping. This must be done at full throttle. |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:34pm
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Ok thanks doc. Is there other possibilities? I'm thinking it is the torque limiter |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 8:55pm
| Look under the bellhousing and see if it is dripping any oil. |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 8:07pm
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Hey doc. So I did more disking tonight and on my way home going up hill in 4th high button on floor in fast side it was slipping again so I did the best I could without crashing I was heavy on throttle and stepped on brakes and wiggled steering wheel back and forth and the steering still worked. Under bell housing has some oily moisture, cant tell if its motor oil or hydraulic. Definitely no drip |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 8:50pm
| You have to completely stop the tractor to test steering. MACK |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 9:10pm
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Ok. I was gonna ask last night but didn't want to come off as dumb. So push full throttle going up hill when it acts up clutch in step on brakes and come to a complete stop and try to steer as I come to stop? |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 9:20pm
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....yes because the tq limiter drives everything. If PD was slipping when travel stalled the hyd pump would still work and P/str & hydraulis would function. If limiter slips at travel stall,you are not turning hyd pump so no pwr str or hyd function
Keep your foot off the clutch pedal,STOMP the brakes(hang on) and stop fwd travel,then see if you can turn str wheel. HAVE TO BE STOPPED TO TEST
|
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2020 at 7:13am
| Just as my post described …" stand on the brakes HARD and make the tractor stop moving"...…. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2020 at 8:31pm
...and you are correct....sometimes it helps to draw a picture for the inexperienced
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 7:29pm
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If everyone was so experienced in orange equipment as SteveM is then maybe the forum wouldn't exist. Thanks for help doc and mack. Yeah a little more detail does help. I just assumed if I was full throttle in tractor and stood on the brakes it would stall and of course nothing would work because tractor died. Thanks cory |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 7:43pm
| I have a feeling that the engine won't stall because something is slipping to cause your original issue?? Does the engine rev up during your "slippage? Sadly, I might be one of those that need a drawing, but I "think" this one I may be on the right track with the engine dying?? Those are sharp looking tractors BTW,hope you can resolve the issue :-) |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 8:58pm
| The engine rpms seem to stay the same maybe go higher a little . It just acts like someone pushed the clutch pedal in as I'm disking. If that helps |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 9:14pm
| Check the oil level on the dipstick under the seat with the tractor sitting on the level and after sitting overnite. Check BOTH SIDES of the dipstick. By your own description you just wrote.... " It just acts like someone pushed the clutch pedal in as I'm discing". So, did the power steering still work while this episode occurred ?????? The correct answer to that question is key to a proper diagnosis. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 10:31pm
| I'm not that experienced....just been reading here for years. Doc,MACK,Lynn,Tbran....those guys have the experience |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 10:50am
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So have you stepped on the brakes to stop forward travel yet? What did you find out?Hydraulics work or not? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 11:14am
| Not yet. Getting moldboards ready today |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 5:47pm
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2300 rpm in field with plows up I stand on brakes to bring tractor to a halt and power steering does not work. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 5:48pm
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torque limiter ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 5:50pm
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Get new clutc disk ,belleville washer check rear main seal and what else? Thanks cory |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 5:55pm
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machine flywheel for sure and new pressure plate ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 5:58pm
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Yes obviously flywheel forgot. I tried looking up the pressure plat on agco books got the part number but when I google a new the oem part numbers dont match. 23 spline 12" with 4 pads or with 6 pads? It's not a 20 spline correct? |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 6:11pm
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A-70269732 Allis-Chalmers End Plate Clutch TRACTOR: 4W220 7010 7020 7030 7040 7045 7050 7060 7080 7580 8010 8030 8050 8070 Our Price: $137.39 |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 6:12pm
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Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 6:12pm
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 7:09pm
| Im really not to familar with the 7000 series torque limiter ; but have followed all posts on them - is there anything different you can do to elimenate the torque limiter ? Seems they are quite a problem in these tractors |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:37pm
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Double it and you will take splines out of the PD or something else. While it is split, reseal PD. and rear main seal. MACK |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:53pm
| "Double it" as in use one belleville spring not 2? |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:53pm
| Probably best place to get these parts would be agco dealer? |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 9:02am
| Despite neg post about torque limiters they are not a problem as a whole. If you have oil seals start leaking that oil will eventually get in the limiter and cause slipping. Not the limiters fault. Lots of hours and depending on type of use,the hub can break out...a wear item. When things are right they are not a problem. Part of the burnishing procedure when installing new is to center limiter on flywheel so the driven shaft doesn't eat up the splines on the other end being off center. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 9:14am
My uncle and my cousin have been full time farming with 7000 and 8000 series tractors since the mid 1980's and never has one had a torque limiter problem. I've been running a 7050 and 7030 for over 20 years and though I'm not a full time farmer, I've never had a torque limiter go out..... knock on wood  ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 12:32pm
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Double it" as in use one belleville spring not 2? |
Posted By: bleeds orange
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 12:32pm
| Probably best place to get these parts would be agco dealer? |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm
| Good luck with it,, a new assembly should last for years |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 8:57pm
| Some used two Belleview washers and shimmed stands. MACk |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 9:54pm
| Isn't a that what they are designed for to slip and protect the transmission? you would lose that by doubling up the washer. Unless you are tractor pulling and are making a bunch of horsepower and not up and down shifting all day long like a farm tractor. Those tractors are in the 40 year old range get a little oil leak and they slip. Fix the limiter and seals and be good for another 40 years. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 9:54pm
BTDT
|
Posted By: Albertan7030
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 9:19pm
| I’ve got a 7080 doing the same thing. I called about parts and the parts lady said the disc and spring are most common to wear. She said there is another plate to the assembly but it shouldn’t wear bad. Should a guy be doing the whole power director while he’s got it split or just seals? My power director valve needs seals for sure. The disc from AGCO is 4 pad which I have read is better because of surface area/ pressure? I don’t mean to steal a thread just trying to learn and help others that might need the same info. Thanks. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 10:31pm
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The spring centered torque limiter is the shock absorber of the power train. The spring center absorbs the pulses of power as does the weight of the flywheel. This helps prevent wear on the teeth of the clutch discs on the PD or PS tranny as well as the splined coupler at the rear of the trans that powers the high low rear gears that powers the pinion. The torque limiter must be allowed to slip for max transmission life. The original torque limiters were thought to be adequate because the testing was done by good operators and engineers ( keep in mind, if something fails in test - it has to be fixed - and the bean counters don't like that. Also some things are cheapened up BY bean counters - most have to restored to original design ) When the 7030's and 7050's went to the field then the 7040 60's and they wound up close to 20,000# then the complaint of sluggish low hp came and the pumps were sent of and turned "10%" to get the customer off the service reps back, the torque limiters started failing. The fix was to increase the thickness of the back plate, the belville washer, taller spools to allow for the thicker part and finally a shield to keep leaky trans and rear main seals from lubing the pads of the limiter. The flywheel, if machined properly and if the proper parts were installed would hold 200 hp in all applications for thousands of hours. IF you double spring it - it will not slip. IF you have a good operator who understands how to start a load it will never slip anyway - but we all boo boo and "pop" the clutch by accident or panic at times and that is when the torque limiter does its job by slipping a few revolutions allowing the engine to lug down and slowly start turning the gears avoiding a harsh, damaging clutch engagement. Changing a torque limiter every few thousand hours is a lot less $$$ than a PS or PD or other failure. Another way to check the slippage of the TL is to rev the engine to about 1800, turn on the PTO, hold the brakes and let out on the clutch fairly quickly to make the unit slip and have someone observe the PTO speed - if the pto never slows it is the PD/PS clutches, if it stops and the engine continues to run , it is the TL slipping... be careful using this test as if the engine TL is not at fault and the engine lugs down - it can lower the speed of the pumps and allow the clutch to slip - which allows the engine to rev thus bringing the pump volume up which makes the clutch grab and the cycle will continue never killing the engine. Finally on a power director the high range clutch has no belville washer buffers thus requiring less pressure to engage. If we have a PD slipping in low range we push the button or switch to high range and see if it pulls in high - this will be a rather violent shift if the low range is slipping. One can also hold the high range floor button down and let out the clutch for a wheelly popping experience... ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: Albertan7030
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 10:54pm
| Thanks for the reply. That is a pile of info. I did the brake test and the steering went dead as if I shut the tractor off. I agree some slip is better than a tranny rebuild but at 210 hp I should be able to drive around my yard without slippage! I am prepared to do the limiter as the tractor is 45 years old just wondering as mentioned before what a guy should do for sure as well as parts to get while it is split. Is that intermediate plate recommended like a pressure plate in a normal clutch set up or is it machinable like a flywheel if it is worn? |