Allis Hydraulic Cylinder on Shredder
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=165037
Printed Date: 18 Jul 2025 at 11:46am
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Topic: Allis Hydraulic Cylinder on Shredder
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Subject: Allis Hydraulic Cylinder on Shredder
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 5:37pm
I have an Allis single action hydraulic cylinder on my Allis shredder. A nice set up. However, when I raise the shredder with the cylinder, it shoots hydraulic fluid out of what I suspect is a relief value. Is this normal? How can I get it to not do this as it sprays fluid all over the shredder. Can I just remove the valve and put a plug in the hole? I have the cylinder hooked up to a D17 IV, does this matter? Below are some pictures of the cylinder and shredder.    ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Replies:
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 6:23pm
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Looks to me that is a 2 way/push-pull cylinder be used as a one way, so that is a breather fitting where the second hose would go. The oil that is spraying out is coming from a leak within the cylinder. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: festus51
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 6:45pm
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My thoughts exactly on the problem ------------- We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 6:57pm
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So, I should put another hose on there and make it a two way cylinder? What if I just put a plug in that hole? ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 6:59pm
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Actually, the spray is coming out of the "relief valve" not out of the cylinder, unless I'm not reading things correctly. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: festus51
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 7:04pm
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You need a vent on a two way cylinder when using as one way. The air in the other half of cylinder has to have some where to go. You could put another hose on it and use as a two way but your cylinder will still have an internal leak. The brush cutter is light weight so you could get along quite a while like that. ------------- We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 7:12pm
| Will the shredder settle if you let it sit with the shredder in the raised position? |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 7:21pm
| That is a home made vent. Put a 2nd hose on it and run it as a 2 way cylinder. That is a later AC cylinder made to run on a series 3 or 4 D17. I don't think they made an older high pressure in 2 way design. It they did I've never seen 1 in 70 years of being around AC's. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:02pm
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The shredder will settle if I shut the tractor off and let it set for a period of time. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:04pm
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About the internal leak, does that mean that there is something inside the cylinder that allows the fluid to spray out of the relief value? If I put another hose on the cylinder, will there still be a leak ? ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:17pm
| There will still be a leak, but it will be contained in the hydraulic system, and not leaking on your mower. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:33pm
| More than likely, the seals on the piston are leaking, allowing oil to transfer from the bottom end of the cylinder, to the top end, where the shaft is located. Oil seeps past the seals, from the bottom end, cause that's were the pressure is. Once it gets into the top end, and the cylinder is lowered, now you have the piston pressing against the oil at the top end that has seeped by, and is now forced out the breather hole, as liquids can not be compressed, hence the spraying of oil. Personally if it was me, I would re-seal the cylinder, and then add the second hose. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 9:00pm
If you just plug it, it will stop working or bust something... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 9:55pm
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How do you reseal the cylinder? where can you get new seals? Thanks, Dave ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 10:05pm
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Undo the tie bolts to disassemble. The seals con probably be bout at any dealer or even TSC store. Just have to have the old seals to match. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 10:37pm
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Are you referring to the hole the upper hose would go in as the "Relief valve"? If that is the case you have leaky seals internally. If there is another port you are referring to can you take a closer picture of it? A normal cylinder only has two ports, a Gozin, and a Gozout! ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 10:32am
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In the first picture, where that screw in plug on the side is, is what I'm referring to as a "relief valve". The plug has a small cotter key type wire in the middle of it where the fluid sprays out when I use the cylinder to lift the shredder. I just assumed it was some sort of relief valve, but per the discussion here, that may not be the case. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: orangereborn
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 11:10am
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The plug with the cotter pin is just another form of a vent. You're given explanation of the leak would support that style of vent. There are more sophisticated plugs with screens in them for a little cleaner operation but with the internal leakage that may soon plug and present the situation mentioned above. If you repair the cylinder I would personally choose to put the screen vent in at that time because the plug style you have now may have more of a tendency to inhale debris. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 11:19am
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Thank you Dale. That makes sense. I plan to repair the cylinder, as I do like the single action one for this implement and like leaving my double action ones on other equipment rather than moving them around as I use the item. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 11:27am
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There is no "relief valve" That is a vent, needed for one way operation. The ONLY way to fix it right, is to take the cylinder apart and put a new piston seal kit in it. Your oil is being pushed past the seal on the piston (#11 below) and once on the other side, HAS to have a place to go when you raise the cylinder. If you plug the hole, the cylinder will stop going up when the front side is full of oil. 
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: orangereborn
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 11:43am
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Dave (NE) wrote:Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 4:36pm
Here is the Allis Chalmers 2 way Hi-Pressure cylinder that I have available. It will be on the trailer at the swap meet this Saturday.  ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 3:01pm
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Well, I have the cylinder apart. The piston seal is not as wide as the slot in the piston. There appeared to be some sort of paper or cork washer also in the slot next to the seal which is now deteriorated and in pieces so I can't tell exactly what it was. Is this normal? Do I just need to replace the seal with a new one and should it be as wide as the slot it goes in? Thanks, Dave ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 3:59pm
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If you have a hydraulic repair shop near by, take your old parts and the cylinder and go visit them. It is most likely they will be able to match things up and get you the right parts. You should replace all the sealing parts of the cylinder while you have it apart. They will likely have the screened vent also. Depending on the seals used it is not uncommon for a backup ring of some type to be used in the groove with the seal. Leather was used for seals and backup rings at times. There are some newer sealing options a good shop may have and suggest to you. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 4:11pm
| I agree with Jim, what you have is a seal and a backup ring (cork/leather). Different remote cylinders used that, and Ford used that system on their Jubilee tractor (for the 3pt rockshaft). I don't know about a 2-way cylinder, but on a 1 way cylinder, the seal goes toward the "head" end of the piston, with the backup ring behind it. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 7:38pm
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Boy, don't know how you could stretch a leather or cork backup ring over the end and into the groove, but guess that was done. I'm planning to take the cylinder in to a hydraulic shop next week and see what they say. Thanks for all the info and help. Always a new adventure for me when trying to fix things. Dave ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 9:45pm
| It's not too hard. Just soak it in oil first and lube the piston. Gently work it over, and it won't tear. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 8:39am
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Warmed up oil on the gas grill might help. Some pistons are made in 2 pieces so you can slide new seals right on the smaller diameter. I doubt many of these 'farm cylinders were built like that though. You will want to replace the wiper and seal on the rod while you have it apart, and check for any rusty areas on the rod. Things need to be clean and smooth, to keep a seal in working condition. I have a cylinder much like that one on my JD planter I bought a couple years back. When I got it hooked up and ready to go, I just removed the coupler from the end of the top hose (return pressure) and raised the planter up. That emptied out the oil on the top side of the piston. Then I put the coupler back on and wired the hose up out of the way. It works fine using it one way, because of all the air in the hose and cylinder can compress, and it could potentially draw air in on the down stroke if needed. I would replace that plug with a cintered muffler to let it breath, and not contaminate the inside of the cylinder. Cost should be$6 or less for the muffler. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cintered+muffler" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cintered+muffler ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 8:28am
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I did as suggested, took the cylinder to a hydraulic shop. Took a bit to find one. There were half a dozen seals along with the breather that were replaced. Didn't realize there were that many, but with it apart had them all replaced. Was an $80 cost to do all this, but now have the cylinder back together and on the shredder. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 8:53am
| $80 is less than a new cylinder. All the sealing parts were replaced and a proper vent installed as is the correct way to do it. It should go a long time for you now. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 4:45pm
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The last time I bought a set of those Chevron packings, the whole stack was $8 from Motion Industries. $80 isn't too bad to have somebody that knows what they are doing, disassemble and replace them, and have a good inspection of all working components in the cylinder. You should be Good To Go for at least another 30 years with that cylinder, as long as it is never left with the rod exposed to develop rust, that WILL eat up the packing. If it ever does leak a bit more than needed, you should be able to adjust pressure on the packing by tightening the gland nut up a bit at a time. They DO need to let a slight film of oil pass by to keep the outside packing lubricated, just not leaking. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 4:52pm
| You're thinking of a different cylinder than his. More than just a set of packings in his and no gland to take up. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2019 at 11:32am
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That I was, a kit for a 2 way cylinder would be twice that, at around $16 o $20, including piston seal and backing, rod seal and wiper. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |