4x4 tractor on big square baler?
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Topic: 4x4 tractor on big square baler?
Posted By: studeranch
Subject: 4x4 tractor on big square baler?
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2019 at 12:26pm
I am researching the value of using a 4x4 tractor on a big square hay baler. 4 x 4 size (Hesston 4900) The tractor I am considering using is an allis 7580. It currently has some power director problems (See other post) but If I can get it working, I would like to get some feedback from other who have experience with this combination. Advantages, dis advantages, turning, shifting, getting into, visibility, etc. The people I know who are using an articulated tractor (only 2) are pulling with either a 84or 8640 JD. They like it because they ride so much better over rough ground, and don't feel the baler much. I guess that you can also use a solid frame 4x4 (Case) but I don't know anyone who does. The AC I am looking at has power movable wheels with clamp on dualls (18.4x38) and a big shaft pto with no 3 point. Thanks David
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Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2019 at 3:46pm
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Every region does things a little differently. I can't imagine running a 24,000 lb tractor on a baler, when I could be running an old 7040 without fluid and only weigh 12,000 lbs and use less fuel to boot.
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Posted By: Boss Man
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2019 at 4:40pm
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Around these parts they use 2 wheel drive 145 hp tractors with suitcase weights on the front to off set the baler weight on the drawbar. Unless you have really hilly land where you need the extra weight to control the weight of the baler it seems like over kill
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Posted By: blazen orange
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2019 at 4:55pm
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I have baled with a case ih magnum with front wheel assist with full set of weights on a 3 x3 baler and it was ok you felt every plunger stroke felt nearly every bump and would get pushed around in some of the hills we have and going down the road it would get to bounceing that you litterly could only go about fourths speed. But currently we use a 4490 case 4 wheel drive with duals all around no fluid no weights and all the things listed above went away it is literally like night and day . I think most people dont realize how heavy these balers are especially when they are full of hay. Silage bales which are real popular rack up more weight. This has been my experience. Wjen we first tried the 4 wheel drive i even thought holy over kill but would never think of using another tractor on it now.
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Posted By: studeranch
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 12:17am
Thanks Blazen Orange! your reply is one I was looking for. Hopefully someone with a 7580 will check in. You are right on the dissadvantages of a 2 wheel drive tractor. The 4900 baler weighs about 20,000 pounds and holds 2 bales in the baler, and up to 3 bales on the accumulator with an average weight of 1700#each, for a total weight pushing 30000# at times. Tongue weight is 5000# or so. So the extra mass is an advantage, or at least that is what i am trying to find out. One of our neighbors used to pull his 4x4 baler without accumulator with a 4430 Deere, so a smaller tractor can be done. We currently use a 2390 Case with weight and dualls. Prefered is our 9630 agco allis with fwa, because of the 18 speed powershift it has better gearing than the Case, but it is also the loader tractor, so the Case gets used on the baler.. We try to use minimum tillage so the ground becomes fairly rough with ground squirels and badgers. With the baler you feel the bump with the tractor, and again when the baler hits the bump, and transfers that bump through the tractor again. I have a friend that likes to use 7080's with duals or wide tires and weights on 3x4 balers. (3x4's have less mass than a 4x4) He likes the power director tractor better than AC's power shift because of more gear selection. He says the 7580 would be better, but he doesn't have one. Economics always plays a part, I would be happy with a 9670 or 9690 Agco allis, but $ 35,000 is sort of the going rate. The 7580 can be had for scrap price plus whatever it costs to fix it. There are a few inexpensive 4490 or 4690 Case' around as well. Maybe a 84 or 86 Deere could be had with a budget. So, with this this post, I am trying to find out the expereinces of people with 4 wheel drive tractors on 4x4 balers, both the good and bad. Thanks David
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:18am
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Only "bad" I could think, would be as Dr. said fuel use. Other than that....compaction with the heavy equipment, keep it on duals to help there. You won't have any issues steering or anything like that.
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Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:36am
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I was thinking about finding a 7580 to use on my 3x3 after this year. I can’t imagine using anything less than the 7060 that’s on it now. Maybe my density’s set too high or my pto clutch is too tight because it lugs every stroke and maybe unrelated but now my torque limiter has a spring rattling it sounds like. I took the duals off so I didn’t ruin my new tires, but now it’s wanting to jackknife me turning down hill and bouncing all over. I can notice the weight shift when the back bale comes off as well. I was going to find a 7580 and take the back duals off. Just be more steps if you have a knotter giving trouble.
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Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 4:03pm
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You could not pay me to run a Hesston 4900 on a 7040. We baled 1 afernoon with a Hesston 4790 that is smaller on a 7050, it would shake the tractor on each stroke and you had to steer with the brakes on flat ground. 7580 might be overkill but its better than being too little, especially if you have hills
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Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 5:35pm
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I dont think a 7580 is overkill on a 4x4 baler with an accumulator. Around here guys use a 7140 case ih, dt180 agco, 225cvt mx case ih, with dual and front wheel assist. if you are baling for 10 hours a day you want to be comfortable and not just getting by. These guys are doing custom work and running up and down the road. One of the them had a two wheel drive magnum with duals on one of his balers and he said one day he spun out going up a steep hill. I know there was another baler rolled over coming down a hill by a different person. I was thinking a 7580 has the same 426 motor as almost all but the biggest allis so whats the difference. Duals should be fine but I know some of those came with wide rubber on them also,23.1 or 24.5 or 30.5 then maybe singles would be ok.
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Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 8:06am
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My nieghbor is the only guy around that bales large 4x4 squares. He is using a quad track. The accumulator hold 9 bales then another guy follows with a very large payloader that picks up all 9 bales takes them to the corner of the field and sets up a stack. They finish a quarter section after lunch
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Posted By: sanddersPRQ
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 7:54pm
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 8:45pm
What do you think the chances are that sanders is not in Chicago?
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2019 at 6:47pm
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guys around here use articuating tractors for big balers because they can get one cheap compared two a big 2wd or fwa
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2019 at 6:54pm
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what i think looks silly is these guys raking hay with the same size rake i use (v 16) with the wd , and they useing a 175 hp fwa tractor, but no one has small tractors under 100hp anymore
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Posted By: ajl
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2019 at 9:07pm
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Know a guy who ran a 4900 with a JD 8640. Would definitely try the 7580 on it. With the 20 speed tranny should be able to find a good gear in most conditions.
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