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Next project- D14 odds and ends

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Topic: Next project- D14 odds and ends
Posted By: littlemarv
Subject: Next project- D14 odds and ends
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 11:40pm

My brother has a D14 at his house. He uses it for hauling wood, a small food plot, but its main purpose is for plowing snow. It has a hydraulic loader with tilt on it, and he uses my snap coupler blade for clearing the driveway. He says the blade is the cats meow for snow, I've never tried it.

 
Its long overdue for some TLC. He told me he was going to take it to a shop nearby, give them X amount of money and a list of things to fix on it. Well, we can't have that, someone else working on an Allis of a family member?!?!  Plus a chance for me to fix tractors with someone else's money? Sign me up!
 
 
Went and got the tractor tonight, brought the blade as well, I have a little work to do on it. If I remember right, the two large screws that tilt the blade are bent.
 
 
So, the list consists of:
 
Replace the foot clutch
Repair the inoperative brakes
Have the cylinder head gone through, and check cylinder condition while we are in there
Needs a new wire harness ( I think I will get rid of the resistor and replace the coil too)
Get the spinout rims working- he had to take the fenders off to get the chains on
Replace hydraulic valve bank, as it is cracked
And, figure out whats going on here- he adds hydraulic oil here-
 
 
And once the tractor is used awhile and gets hot, it spews out of here-
 
 
I have read about a leaking hose or cylinder for the lift arms leaking and pumping all the hyd. oil into the rear end, could that be whats going on here? Or is there a seal somewhere in the middle of the tractor that is leaking? Depending on what I have to do to the brakes, I may have the finals off already...
 
So, lots of questions to come, as I learn  about the D14. Quite the glamorous tractor, what with all its power director and comfy seat and easy on and off platform, way more creature comforts than I'm used too... the old boy must be doing pretty well to have such a fancy ride...


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The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H



Replies:
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 11:45pm
One more thing, whoever plumbed the valve in, put a bolt in the hydraulic quadrant to hold the lever in the raise position, so the pump is always pumping, then the valve bank is used to direct the oil. Couldn't a fellow remove that bolt, so you can put the lever in the lower position when you aren't using the hydraulics?

-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 6:09am
Looks like a fun project. I have two D14s on the shelf if you need parts. Head is rebuilt and ready to be installed.



Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 7:05am
Ryan,
 You have taken on another good Allis project. Your list reminds me of mine when I started my 45 project. Spending someone else's money should be pretty easy too!
We will be watching. You always have great documentation/ pictures! I will learn some things about the smaller D series too.
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 9:04am
Yep, it's fun to work on something new. Wasn't a quick fix for the oil coming out of the vent to run a hose between the drain plugs so the fluid can equalize? Or am I thinking of something different?

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The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 11:35am
Why patch it if you are fixing other things and have time .Take time to make sure what it takes to fix problem and do it right . Just my opinion .

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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:16pm
OK, so does anyone have any advise as to what would cause the oil to come out the vent by the shifter? I could see it being the hose or cylinder inside the rockshaft housing, but how can it be something in the middle of the tractor if the power director is in-between the hyd pump and transmission? I will take a few pictures of the custom hydraulic setup and post them later.

-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 8:05pm
OK, here's a 'test' for you. 1st... get 2 or 3 empty 5 gallon buckets, no lids. 2. put one under the drain plug of the diferential( rear end) . 3 remove plug, let fall into bucket.
If you have to use a 2nd bucket... odds are real good the hose and/or ram seals are kaput. This lets hydraulic oil escape into the diff 'cavity'. When the 'axle' seals fail, you'll end up with NO brakes on that side and the bull gear section FULL of oil. Yup, I have new seals here, under the monitor, one day.... one day... I'll replace them.
As for the clutch, I found an overhead Ibeam and 2 'trolleys' with chain hoists to be IDEAL in splittin tractors.

Jay


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 9:42pm
So, this is the way he bought the tractor, years and years ago.
 
There is a bolt in the quadrant, holding both the hydraulic and traction booster lever up. This means that the hydraulic pump is running constantly. ( I think)
 
 
The pressure line comes out of the pump, and goes into the right side of the valve bank, goes through the bank and back to the reservoir via the filter. So it is just constantly circulating the oil, when you aren't using any hydraulic functions.
 
 
The right lever is for the loader, pressure up and gravity down. The middle lever is for the tilt on the bucket, pressure up and down. The left lever is for the lift arms and remote outlet, pressure up and gravity down.
 
 
I talked to my brother tonight. He says when he uses the loader plowing snow awhile, it starts foaming out the vent next to the shift lever.
 
BUT, he always has the blade on the back. He never said it settled, and I never asked. In theory, if the internal line or cylinder is leaking while he is using the loader, it would put oil right into the rear end/ transmission. I think I will just take the rockshaft housing off and take a peek in there first.
 
Supposed to be a crappy weekend weather wise, and I'm stuck in town on call. Good weekend to start on the clutch and the brakes, I guess.
 
Step 1= Bath
 
 
 


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The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

 When the 'axle' seals fail, you'll end up with NO brakes on that side and the bull gear section FULL of oil.
As for the clutch, I found an overhead Ibeam and 2 'trolleys' with chain hoists to be IDEAL in splittin tractors.

Jay
 
Well, neither brakes work. The pedal travel feels OK, it feels like you are moving shoes and the pedals get hard like the shoes are contacting the drums, but nothing happens. They could very well be oil soaked. The underside of the tractor was covered in oil, couldn't really see the exact source. I figured if I wash it, maybe some leaks will show up by the weekend...
 
I was just going to pull the engine to replace the clutch, and take the head off and have that gone through while its out.


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 8:12am
Ryan,
Just a gut feeling that his may turn into a larger project that you expect. But I think you already know that. Hope the brakes are easy peasy but if oil soaked then you will need to fix the oil leak first.
My read on this is that the entire hydraulic system needs to be reviewed for operation with a loader. I am not the person for this! Almost need a hydraulic diagram and understand the flows and function requirements. I would need help in that area. Electricals and hydraulics not my strong points. 
I know just enough to be dangerous in both areas!:) 
Anyway I will be watching. 
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 8:32am
Just a thought, is the return line from the add on valve dumping oil into the transmission, instead of the hydraulic reservoir? I would think it would fill the back end up pretty fast and run the pump low on oil before too long.


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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 11:37pm
The return line goes into the hydraulic reservoir on the opposite side as the dipstick.
Checked compression before I began.
 
Cyl #1
 
Cyl #2
 
Cyl #3
 
Cyl #4
 
Looks pretty good. If anything, #2 might be a touch lower than the rest, we will see if anything shows up when the head is off.
 
Nice looking garage, as far as I'm concerned. 
 
 
Well, the hydraulic leaks are pretty apparent.
 
 
Drips hanging off both brake levers, and it looks like the PTO lever shaft is leaking oil.
 
 
 
 
Anyways, lets start up front. I thought the motor would come out pretty easy, but once I got the radiator out, I discovered that there isn't enough clearance between the bolster and the engine to get the clutch out of the bellhousing. So, a bottle jack under the torque tube, the engine hanging from the hoist, and the floor jack on the loader subframe should suffice.
 
 
Slid the loader subframe (and tractor frame and steering) ahead 6" or so. I have a question about the steering shaft. Is anything supposed to hold this gear in? It slid right out when I moved the bolster forward.
 
 
Lifted the motor out, slid the subframe back, and bolted it back into place for now.
 
I was going to take the rear wheels off, and lay then down for disassembly to free up the eccentrics, as my brother told me a couple years ago that they were stuck. But, I tried them with my longest ratchet and a piece of pipe, and lo and behold, they all came loose pretty easy.
 
Score! That saves me a couple hours right there, that's for sure.
 
Jacked up the back end and blocked it up. Removed the filled tires and leaned them up against the wall outside (without getting squashed).  Removed the brake return springs and the platforms.
 
Checked the dipstick, it was several inches overfull. Drained it, got about 6 gallons out of it.
 
 
Hung the finals from the hoist and slid them out.
 
 
They actually balance pretty well, set them on the floor jack to wheel them around, they came off pretty easy.
 
 
Everything looks intact in here, the linings look pretty good, I think, not knowing how thick they are new. But they are 100% oil soaked.
 
 
Popped the shoes off. I'm assuming I have to remove the plate behind it to get at the axle seals?
 
 
Also looks like oil is seeping out of the tranny cover screws?
 
 
Removed the clutch and flywheel, clutch is pretty oil soaked as well. Rear main, oil pan gasket, and oil pump re-seal are in order here...
 
 
And bolted it up to the engine stand.
 
 
Had to organize all my parts, too much stuff laying everywhere like usual.
 
 
And, spend an hour cleaning up so a guy can at least walk in here.
 
 
So there, that was a good afternoons work.
 
Need to get some friction material coming from Rick, get a service manual, get the engine apart, and keep tractoring on this project!
 
Thanks for looking!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 5:36am
WOW you've done more in this one post than I've done in 19 years on 'Troy' ! GREAt pictures....reminds me I 'should' R&R the left axle and replace the seals...sigh I wouldn't pull the head...comp is fine ! PTO seal is supposed to be replaceable from the inside. There was a thread years ago about that. Mine leaks a LOT more than yours, ..great , nuther thing to do...
The bolt in the quadrant is to keep the pump going. Be careful about that setup as A-C pump is 3500PSI so when a hose or fitting breaks.... !

Wish I could stay focused on one project..you're doing GREAT !!!

Jay


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 10:01pm
He wants the head gone through because he took the plugs out a few times and they are always oily. I noticed there was oil under the spark plugs, pooled in the head casting, when I did the compression test. Not sure if oil can leak out around the spark plugs, but compression can't? Sounds fishy to me. Its not the valve cover gasket either, I looked that over closely.
 
Anyways, junior and I spent a rainy afternoon on disassembly.
 
 
When we got the head off, sure enough, there was pools of oil in each piston.
 
 
This tractor does not smoke. It starts and runs very well. It has good compression and some of the worst looking and feeling cylinder walls I have seen in quite awhile.
 
 
That's when Lon stopped in, he was passing through and brought me some parts for the cutaway engine that I am going to make (someday). He scanned my progress and gave me several pointers on both the engine and hydraulic leak aspects of the project. He pointed out that the crankshaft has a ton of end play, probably the cause of the rear main leak.
 
Took the pan down. No large chunks or other surprises there, that's a good thing.
 
 
Also took the fan off and removed the governor cover. Checked the flyweights, lots of slop there.
 
 
So there. We are only a couple bolts and parts away from an overhaul. The head needs reconditioning, and the crank end play needs to be addressed. I could roll in a set of crankshaft bearings and see if the end play tightens up. But now is the time to freshen the whole thing and be done with it.
 
Guess I will have to get some prices and pitch my ideas to the owner.
 
On to the other end of the project. Took one side cover off so I can get at the axle seals. They have a National part # on them. I did a little research on them, they have a slightly different ID than the OEM ones. I think I will just stick with Agco seals. I have to order a handful of gaskets and seals for all the hydraulic leaks anyways.
 
Removed the seat. Pulled the PTO shaft without draining the hand clutch housing, so it kind of drained on its own. So there must be a seal at the front of the PTO shaft as well. Add it to the list...
 
 
 
Slid the housing back, removed the snap ring and slid the pin out. When I removed the snap ring, I didn't think I overextended it, but it didn't spring back. I guess I could just replace it with a regular external snap ring.
 
 
 
Pulled the front pin to get the cylinder out. O-ring on there too.
 
 
New packing kit and hose for this.
 
 
There, enough for one night. Tomorrow, swing the tranny out of the way so I can get at that pesky PTO shifter o-ring, and hopefully that's as far as I have to go!
 
Thanks for looking.


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 5:34am
WOW !!! I love the pics and progress, sigh . Ishould get you to do my axle seals, and pTO seal, and ...
I had local hyd shop makeup the RAM hose. It was 1/2 price of agco AND had a swivel ftg.
It made installing the  cast piece easy, now lining up the cylinder to get that pin in......
Jay


-------------
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 6:53am
Ryan,
 I agree with Jay. It took me a year to get that far on my tractor project! Awesome documentation on the D14. I want to warn you that when you pitch the numbers to the current owner you need to have the answer to this question! "Do you want to buy it" Serious, it could happen. But it sure looks like it would be right at home in your shop and you would know what you have. Just sayin!:) 

Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 3:20pm
Following this as we have 2 series 1 D 15s . D 14 looks very similar . My compression test was also about 140-150 . Did yours quickly leak down ? Thanks.


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2019 at 5:46pm
I never paused to see how good it held.
 
Started to remove the tranny, but it got hung up and wouldn't come out. Googled "D14 tranny removal" and it led me to an old post on here. I did't know the hand clutch came out with the tranny! No wonder it wouldn't slide back with the fork in the way.
 
So, off with the power director handle and side cover.
 
There's the little bugger I'm after!
 
 
Lon told me that people take the roll pin out and replace them with a bolt. I looked in there and thought, hell, I could have done it through the side! But, I already had the tranny broke loose, needs a new gasket now.
 
Didn't matter anyways, as it was a machine screw THROUGH the roll pin. Weird.
 
 
Removed the PTO shift lever. Learned a hard lesson on getting the shift fork out though. There is a spring and ball in the end of the clutch shaft, to hold the PTO either in or out. I shifted the shifter inbetween the two, and lifted on the shift fork. The problem is, there is a hole in the middle of the fork for the pivot pin, and the spring and ball shot into that! Curses! Now I have the pieces stuck, with absolutely no way to get at them.
 
One minute with the pry bar, and, sadly, the spring didn't survive the trip out.
 
Lucky for me, the nearest Agco dealer had all pieces necessary in stock, including the spring. I looked all the parts up as a guest on the Agco parts website.
 
 
The clutch pedal is very slopped out. The shaft is worn, and the bore in the pedal. They had a new shaft, so I pounded this one out.
 
Old one was out 2 1/2" Took a picture so I don't have to remember it.
 
 
 
The PTO shifter o-ring?   $0.50
 
Everything else to reseal stuff along the way?    $267.50!
 
Man, what a mess. Need to stop and clean up before reassembly!
 
 
Thanks for looking!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2019 at 5:56pm
Thanks anyway . When I did my compression test it immediately leaked down . Thanks for posting all the pictures too .


Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2019 at 9:01pm
Excellent thread - really enjoying the explanations and photos. Another thread that needs to be saved in the Knowledge section....

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WC, CA, D14, WD45


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2019 at 9:27pm
Ryan,
 Sure is nice to be able to get the parts you need! Good pictures of your work!
Regards,
 Chris


-------------
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 5:35am
GREAT pictures..I just wish I had the energy and drive you've got !!!

re: PTO O-ring R&R.
 I'm wondering if it'd be a good idea to put a couple O-rings on the shaft ,up against the sidewall of the casting before you reattach the shift leaver. My idea is they'd help keep oil from weeping along the shaft to the outside world. Now ,as I type , I wonder if the shaft itself can be installed 180* from original,to offset any wear on the shaft.

As for the bolt/nut IN the rollpin, maybe the rollpin was loose?

sigh, I really need to get off my duff, take over the garage, tell everyone  'I'm going on vacation', NOT answer the phone or door, and then get at least the left brake fixed...
or...
just by another D-14 for $1000.....

Jay


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 6:16am
Marv ; Thanks for posting !! Are you going to Hutch this year? If so I look forward to meeting you and your "crew"    You do wonderfull work on these old tractors.   Mark


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 8:18am
Unfortunately, we have a three day baseball tournament that weekend so we won't be there this year. I can't be skipping my kids stuff, they are suddenly growing up way too fast.

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The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 9:20am
Marv, they do that when you feed them. Wink Great job, and great kids.

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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 9:38pm
Nothing on the schedule! I call the garage for the day!
 
First off, an hour of cleaning. A co-worker lent me a cherry picker. I won't be without one of those for long if I keep doing stuff like this.  Super handy for all the big pieces I'm handling on this job.
 
 
Cleaned out the housing, the bolt holes, the gasket surfaces, and all the shaft bores.
 
 
Changed the O-ring on the shifter shaft. Its always satisfying when the O-ring is so brittle that it breaks when you try and remove it.
 
 
I talked to Don Bradley on the phone, he gave me a few tips on how to do this repair, and cautioned me that getting the detent spring and ball back in place can be a real bear.
 
I threw the new clutch shaft in the freezer last night to make it easier to install. I drove the shaft in until it was sticking out 2 3/4". Then slid the shifter into place. It was pretty easy, having that extra 1/4".
 
 
Then installed the shifter, and drove the shaft in the last 1/4" to the correct depth.
 
 
I decided to put the roll pin back in, and put the machine screw back in. Hey, it worked this long.
 
 
Moving on to the transmission. Replaced the PTO shaft seals up front. You can see the spring in the front one, that can't be good.
 
 
Pulled them out with a ladyfoot bar.
 
 
 
And installed the new ones, one facing each way to keep the oil in each compartment.
 
 
Made some guide studs, and slid the tranny home.
 
 
Installed the fork and the shaft. Pushed the shaft through everything, then put the O-ring on, then slid it back and installed the other one.
 
 
Used a mirror to make sure the dimple was in the hole for the setscrew, and locked it down.
 
 
I always replace all the lockwashers on old iron like this, usually the old ones are broken when you take stuff apart.
 
 
Installed the side cover with a new gasket. The bolts had copper sealing washers on them, but they were so crushed and mangled I just took them off and put lockwashers on. Used a little Permatex on the the bolts to seal the oil in. Put the shifter back on as well.
 
 
Moving rearward,
 
Removed the shift boot, the snap ring, the washer, and the shift lever. Someone welded the shifter back together, it looks like hell.
 
 
 
Pulled the shifter pins out with a magnet, BEFORE they fall in the tranny. Which doesn't really matter on this one, as I am taking the shift cover off anyways.
 
 
 
Whew! I'm assuming this tractor has been ground into gear once or twice!
 
 
Installed the shift cover with a new gasket, cleaned up the slots in the countersunk screws with my cutoff wheel, permatex on all the threads.
 
Put the shifter back in. This tractor is always outside, so I think a new boot is in order. Ground down the gobs of weld as well.
 
 
Moving further back, installed the axle seal on the left side. Here is where I didn't pay attention for one second, and drove the damn seal in backwards!. Wrecked it taking it back out of course, so now I am short a seal. So much for getting it back on its wheels today...
 
Installed the other seal correctly (the second time).
 
 
Christmas in June! A nicely wrapped present from Rick Corder.
 
 
Got the left side brakes back on, anyways.
 
 
And took the right side cover off. Found a hitchhiker in there, wonder how it got there and how long its been there?
 
 
You can't see it in the pictures very well, but the seals were both dented and damaged, and look to me like they were installed backwards. The seals I got from Agco are actually CR seals, part#12458. They are quite a bit thinner, and only single lip??
 
On to the lift cylinder.
 
Ah ha! Look at this! Maybe a leak? The hose was rubbing on the bottom of the housing, presumably when the lift arms were down.
 
 
There really isn't much to the cylinder seals themselves, just an O-ring with a backup ring on either side. The cylinder pulls right apart.
 
Out with the old
 
 
In with the new
 
 
Installed the cylinder with a new hose, and a new O-ring on the lower pin.
 
 
Got the snap ring bent back into shape and installed. Lining up the pin and housing and cylinder is quite a trick.
 
 
Connected the hose, and put the remote outlet back on.
 
 
Slid the PTO shaft back in. New O-ring and seal for the shaft housing. The old PTO shaft seal came out rather hard.
 
 
 
Took the finals out to the wash bay. Pressure washed them, cleaned out the drums, cleaned up the shafts.
 
 
 
 
More to come.....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 5:25am
Holy smokin' wrenches! You got through all that in one day?!!? Good for you! That shift collar does look like it's had a really hard life - does the tranny stay in 3rd? Looks like you'll be done with this project soon.

-------------
WC, CA, D14, WD45


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 6:02am
sigh , I was tired after the FIRST picture, Man I give you THREE thumbs up for all the work you've done AND taking the tinme for great pictures !!!You gotta be young, to be full of so much pizz and vinegar !!
I KNOW about the pin holding the lift cylinder.... 1st time, super easy, 2nd time it took me an HOUR.....
As for 'lifting heavy stuff'....I have a steel I-beam spanning the width of the garage ,pretty well centered front to back.It's on 'basement jack posts' or whatever they call them things and yes, I lost 1' of headroom BUT it's GREAT for splittin tractors ! I have 2 trolleys with 1/2T chain falls.One on each end of the beam. With the tractor unde rthe beam, I can split it easily and SAFELY ! You may want to think about this 'upgrade' cause the older you get, the less you can lift....

Jay



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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Dave(inMA) Dave(inMA) wrote:

Holy smokin' wrenches! You got through all that in one day?!!? Good for you! That shift collar does look like it's had a really hard life - does the tranny stay in 3rd? Looks like you'll be done with this project soon.


X2!!! I can't imagine making that much progress in one day.


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 2:41pm
Ryan,
Looks good from this angle! Yea you don't waste any time! Thanks for the picture of your progress too!
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: Charlie (NC)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 3:19pm
I'm confused. I have 4 D14's and unless I'm crazy none of them have that kind of vent cap in that location. They instead have a big hollowed out cap screw with a vent hole cross drilled through one of the faces of the hex head. If I had a vent cap like yours I'd have it kicked off all of the time.


Posted By: Charlie (NC)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 3:29pm
Where you have that vent is supposed to be the dipstick for the transmission oil. I'm betting the hose going from the hydraulic pump to the lift cylinders is leaking fluid into the transmission. Or does that line bypass the transmission housing??


Posted By: Allis-Chalmers Damon
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 4:08pm
This is an outstanding thread, great work! I have an all original D14 that will need some TLC soon as well.  It runs and drives great but there are little issues that I want addressed before I have major problems. I think this thread has 90% of the information and photos needed!







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1955 WD45 Diesel, 1959 D14, All-Crop Drill, 2015 John Deere 5075e, New Holland 279 Haybine, New Holland 575 square baler, New Holland 1032 Stackliner, 10ft Industrias Disc, 6ft Titan grapple


Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 8:38pm
Ryan - here are shots of the tranny fill opening and dipstick per my D-14. 

Here's the dipstick in place:



And the dipstick itself:




-------------
WC, CA, D14, WD45


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 11:09pm
The dipstick for the hand clutch oil level is a 1 1/4" hex, with the hole drilled through the hex like mentioned above.
 
I did some extensive internet research (translation- Googled it) and found several different pictures of trans dipsticks like the one I have. This tractor has a two thousand something serial number, maybe the earlier ones had this, then they switched to the other style?
 
Anyways, I measured from the bottom of the cap to the full mark, exactly 8" to full, just like the one pictured above.
 
Got the new seal installed and the right hand brakes together
 
 
Slid the finals into place. They just barely squeezed over the new linings, even after I took a grinder and got rid of the lip on the drums.
 
Cut off a 9/16" fine thread bolt to make a guide stud- makes installing loaded tires a lot easier.
 
 
Set the old girl back down, filled the hand clutch and tranny. Need to install the seat and temporarily reconnect the steering, then the chassis can go outside while I work on the engine.
 
Thanks for looking.


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2019 at 6:21am
Ryan,
 Great suggestion on the alignment pin for the wheels! I did not think of that, and it sure would have made it easier getting my wheels on the hubs. I would have had to find or build the studs. I will try to remember that aid!
New brakes look good!
Your coming along very nicely on this tractor!
Thanks for sharing the pictures. I always seem to learn something!
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2019 at 10:29pm
I can't tell from pics but you did install pto double seals  with lips facing away from each other,right?


Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2019 at 9:22am
I really like the wheel mount aid stud - having reinstalled loaded tires on my CA by hanging them from the engine hoist and wrestling them into position while trying to thread a stud into place, I wouldn't want to repeat that operation for my D-14's as its tires are a little, shall we say, chunkier?

-------------
WC, CA, D14, WD45


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2019 at 7:53pm
Yes, the front PTO shaft seals are installed correctly. The rear one keeps the tranny oil back, and the front one keeps the hand clutch oil forward.
 
Learn from my mistakes, boys. I went out to hook up the brake pedals and sure enough, there is oil hanging from the bearing retainer plates on both sides!
 
 
You can see it coming down from the shims that set the ring gear backlash. When I reassembled it, I thought to myself "I wonder if a guy should put some sealant on these shims?" But I didn't see any old sealant anywhere, I thought maybe the shims themselves would seal.
 
Well, maybe that was the leak, doofus.
 
Good thing I like working on tractors, otherwise I would be a little mad. Off with the wheels, off with the finals and the bearing retainers.
 
Checked the weep holes under the seal area, where the oil would come out if the seals themselves were leaking. Dry there.
 
 
The shims show evidence of oil, which definitely wasn't there when I assembled.
 
 
Cleaned everything up, put a thin layer of anaerobic sealer on all the surfaces.
 
 
Put the finals on, put the oil back in. Let it sit overnight.
 
Checked it today, looks much better. You can see the sealant up in there.
 
 
There. Lesson learned.
 
 I asked the local engine shop for a quote on engine work and an overhaul kit a couple weeks ago, haven't heard back from them yet. They must be busy. Guess I'll have to rattle their cage tomorrow.
 
In the meantime, cleaned out the bellhousing.
 
 
And started sizing up the new valve bank, to replace the cobbled one that is cracked.
 
 
I'm assuming the new valve bank has metric o-ring fittings or something like that. The old valves are pipe thread. I will have to have a chat with the hydraulic guys at work, see how we can adapt and overcome there.
 
 
More to come......


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2019 at 8:10pm
Wow... I can't believe the ENERGY you have !!
Th epicture of the bellhousing is a LOT cleaner than mine was....it was FULL of 'mousehouse'. JAMMED..couldn't get one more blade of grass or see in it !
I see a 'spacer' on the rear mounting for the 'wishbone'. Probably means the front 'pin' is wore real bad and the bushing is , well, missing. Yeah, nuther thing on my list... you'll probably have it done with 'pictures at 11' befor eI finish typing this.
When resinstalling the clutch fork lever be sure it goes on the clutch side of the cast 'bumpout' on the left side. I 'think' it's to prevent the rod from going too far. I remember getting it wrong and having to split the tractor a 2nd time. I used longer bolts next to teh dowel pins, to gently pull the 2 halves into proper alignment, then installed the other regular bolts, removed the long ones and then 'buttoned it up'. That was 7 years ago.
When you get it all done, I've got 3 more here that need a 'wee bit of attention'...
Jay


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 7:31am
"Good thing I like working on tractors" indeed!!! You talk about pulling big parts like most of us talk about changing spark plugs. LOL 

Your experience with the shims reminds me of an oil leak from the side cover on my WC's engine. There was a tiny irregularity in the block casting...filled it with some JB Weld (my introduction to that wonderful stuff) and goodbye oil leak. The difference being that I only had to remove a handful of small bolts to get at the offending spot!


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WC, CA, D14, WD45


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 12:19pm
HOLY cow!!!!  So much work in so little time!!  But then you've got a GREAT helper.  Junior going to become a restoration mechanic?
When are you going to be coming down this way?
Gonna miss seeing you this year at Hutch!!


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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 6:30pm
Ryan,
Those shims look similar to the ones in a WD series. I did put sealer on all the shims. But your right I really did not see any original sealant either. The good thing was you knew all the moves to make and the fasteners were not frozen!
Good work.
Regards,
 Chris


-------------
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 10:32pm
Well, after a one month hiatus for camping and baseball, time to get back to work on this one.
 
Talked it over with big brother, he decided to go with an overhaul kit while we are in there.
 
So, I removed the rod caps and pushed the pistons up out of the way. Removed the front cover and rear seal carrier. Removed the main caps and found one side of the thrust bearing to be very worn, so much so that the oil grooves are gone. Removed the crank, couldn't see any stampings on it indicating that it has been machined. Measured the rod and main journals. The rods are 0.010" undersize. The mains are all over the place, there is about 0.010" difference between the three main journals, but as best as I can figure, the mains are 0.020" under already.
 
Inspecting the bearings confirmed my measurements, they were stamped 0.010 and 0.020, respectively.
 
Nothing like removing a precision bearing insert and finding this under it...
 
 
Oh boy, she's been farmer fixed. I'm assuming this was to tighten up some bearing clearances, probably related to the odd journal measurements.
 
Took the crank in, they are going to polish the rod journals, and grind the mains to 0.030" under. The thrust surface was worn way out of spec. They can weld it up and machine it back to specification.  There is a pretty good groove in the crank where the rear main seal was riding, may need a speedy sleeve there.
 
Yikes. There was a whole lot wrong with the crankshaft, but its nothing that can't be fixed.
 
Had another weekend away, then got back to it. Pulled the pistons, liners, lifters, and cam.
 
#4 piston is cracked all the way up to the oil ring.
 
 
Been cleaning parts-
 
 
Popped the ring gear off, machined the flywheel, put the ring gear on a 1/4 turn from where it was, to give the starter some new teeth to work with.
 
 
There was quite a bit of gunk around the back of the #4 liner, like usual. Pressure washed the block, cleaned the liner bores, all the gasket surfaces, tapped all the threaded holes.
 
 
This is when things get a little interesting. Evidently she has thrown #4 rod.   The block is broken, and has been welded. It was covered up by some pretty thick paint on the outside.
 
 
 
The bottom of the o-ring groove is broken as well.
 
 
Boy, this project has spiraled out of control. But I will win. Need to think on some options here..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 1:52am
Good to see you're back . Sorry about all the issues you've found . Good luck and Thanks for keeping us in the loop .


Posted By: Strokendiesel002
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 11:58am
Cast iron welding is an art. I hope you can find someone reasonably close. Most people don't preheat it enough nor grind out a Grove to properly penetrate it.

It's been said many times, but I really admire your work, attitude and results!

I wish you the best in this next phase of the project


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:33pm
Finally getting back to it...
 
Lon stopped over again, he had a used block on hand, and even delivered it, as he was passing through anyways.  Better than Amazon Prime!
 
So, gave the new block the same clean up, and we are right back in business.
 
Unpacked the cylinder kits. They come preassembled, supposedly to protect the rings.
 
 
Dropped the liners in without the O-rings, clamped them down with some fiber washers. Checked the protrusion, OK at about 0.005".
 
 
 
 
 
 
That checks out OK, so we can change the cam bearings. Pulled the old ones out, and drew some lines in the block and on the new bearings so they get pulled in straight.
 
 
Put the new bearings in the freezer to shrink them down a bit. By the time I get them out and lined up and installed they are back to room temp, but its an old habit.
 
Put the lifters back in their original place, lube up the cam and bearings, and slid it home.
 
Unpacked the crank, installed the 0.030" undersize bearings, lined up the timing marks, and  torqued the mains to 95 ft. lbs.
 
 
Checked the end play. Its actually a touch shy, but it will wear in. Spec is 0.004" to 0.008". This is way better than the 0.250" I had before, that's for sure.
 
 
Going to get a speedy sleeve to cover this groove.
 
 
The crank measures exactly 3.375"
 
 
Lubed up the O-rings and installed them in the block. Spin the liners down into position.
 
 
 
Well, I'd like to get the rear main carrier installed, then bolt it up to the engine stand to continue assembly.  Need to get a speedy sleeve this week.
 
In the meantime, may as well get the pistons ready to go in.
 
Center the pin in the piston, and the rod on the pin.
 
 
I replace all lock washers on these old tractors. Put new lock washers on the pinch bolts.  Snugged the pinch bolts down hand tight, then torqued them to spec by putting a punch in a vise, and sliding the piston pin onto it. That way you don't twist on the rod when you are torqueing the bolt to 35 ft lbs.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:43pm
Forgot to mention, the center cam bearing has a large regular sized oil hole in it, and two 1/8" holes towards one end of the bearing, across from each other. At any rate, neither small hole lined up with the 1/8" pipe port in the block where the tee fitting goes. So, I installed the bearing so the big hole lined up, and drilled my own 1/8" hole. Not sure exactly whats going on there, but I made it work.
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:49am
Looks like a good job to me . Thanks for posting


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:38am
Great work and documentation as always Marv.


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 9:25am
Ryan,
 Boy does that all sound and look familiar! You folks will have a real good running tractor when done the right way! Glad you found that bad block, and replaced it! 
Great documentation as usual! You just seem to get it done so much easier than me or is it just the computer thing??:)
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: Larry Miller
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 7:22pm
Lon - you have the oil line from the Distributor to the govenor? 

Larry Miller


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I used to be young and stupid, now I am not young anymore.


Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 7:53am
Yes I do


Posted By: Larry Miller
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 9:05am
Lon - good - it is the short oil line between the govenor post and the distributor that I need. How to do this - my zip is 61275 for ship cost - I can send you a check?
My email lgm422@gmail.com may be better than in this string for details.

Larry Miller


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I used to be young and stupid, now I am not young anymore.


Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 6:16pm
Got the speedy sleeve. Good as new! PLUS, when you are done driving it on, the driver makes a swell little storage cup!
 
 
Oil pump and rear main installed
 
 
Got it mounted on the stand again, makes it a little easier to work with. Installed the rebuilt governor and put a little Lubriplate on the geartrain.
 
 
Centered the front cover on the crank, took apart the cam thrust plate and scraped the gasket.
 
 
Installed the seal, and the ball, springs, and thrust plate for the cam.
 
 
On with the governor housing and the front pulley as well.
 
Made sure all the rings were installed correctly, evenly space the gaps, and dunk them in oil. Can't get much more lubricated than that.
 
 
Lubriplate the bearings, I also put a little on the side of the rods and caps.
 
 
Tapped them home
 
 
Flip it over, snugged up the caps hand tight, then tap them back and forth with a hammer to settle the caps in, then torque them down and install the thin jam nuts.  I always make sure the rods have a little side play. In with the suction tube and the oil pickup. Trim the excess from the front cover gasket and put a little silicone in the four corners, where the joints are.
 
 
One thing to be careful of at this point, if you turn the crankshaft now, the liners can push right up with the pistons.
 
Oil pan on, new lockwashers, I only torque these to 15 foot pounds due to the cork gasket.
 
New drain plug with a copper washer.
 
 
So there, that's it for the bottom end, time to flip her over.
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Reindeer
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 7:58pm
Great photos and commentary!

If I have to do more work on my D15 this is a really wonderful resource. Thanks for taking the time to document and photograph each step. Much appreciated by all of us!



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Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 9:08pm
Unfortunately, the pictures get a little stingy here. I have been so busy with the kids I have been working on it about 10 minutes at a time for the last month!
 
Got the engine reassembled and painted. Torqued the head bolts to 60 ft lbs, the rockers to 25 foot pounds. Set the valves to 0.015"
 
 
Here is a Napa hose to replace the t-stat bypass hose.
 
 
Got the flywheel and clutch bolted up.
 
 
Pulled the chassis back up into the garage. Replaced the throwout bearing, take the front end loose, and back home the engine goes.
 
 
Reassembled completely, filled all the fluids, and fired it up. Took it for a spin, there are some pretty good hills just outside of town, to make her work a little bit. I plumbed in a gauge to check the oil pressure.
 
 
Starts great, runs good, no leaks, the brakes work good. I replaced the cobbled hydraulic valve with a four spool setup, wrapped the hoses with some good wrap.
 
Made sure the spinout rims worked.
 
 
Went in the back yard and got the snap coupler blade. Mounted my extensions.
 
 
Time to clean this place up before winter. Grandpa Marvin needed 9 bales of straw, Uncle Eric needs his snow plowing machine back, and I need to stash a two bottom snap coupler plow in the bushes up at dads when he isn't looking.
 
Made a pretty good load.
 
 
Used the WD to stash the plow up at dads.
 
 
And delivered the D14 back to its owner. Didn't get any pictures of that, cause it was pouring. Like usual.
 
So there, hopefully the tractor outlasts him and I. I'm sure there will be small problems here and there, there always is. But the engine is fresh and the back half is sealed up. Learned a lot about the D series from the hand clutch back, that's for sure.
 
Thanks to everyone that helped, and thanks for looking.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
The mechanic always wins.

B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 9:17pm
Ryan,
 Another happy tractor and happy ending! Enjoyed the thread! Very helpful for anyone with one of these D series!
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 5:22am
Good job ! Thanks for taking the time to post .


Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 10:32am
Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up   I have a B,  hint hint Wink

-------------
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp



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