I finally found a pull behind pasture mower and managed to get pasture mowed with AC having what seemed to be some fuel issues.  Next time I went to mow -- wouldn't start -- electrical problems. Then I learned that for some reason AC thought it would be great to have a positive ground.  Tractor Guy took tractor back and rewired including a new "hot wire" (that attached to negative terminal) that was bad. Tractor started and was mowing great for about 20-25 minutes when it suddenly bucked and died going up a slight hill. I drained fuel tank, cleaned tank as best I could, put on new sediment bowl and got about the same response -- 20 minutes of mowing and then died going up hill. Next time it didn't make it up the first incline. I see lots of comments on here and there seems to be 50 things that could be wrong. Beginning to think that AC's are made for parades not work.  

1. Tractor starts right up. At first purred like a jungle cat, now has a bit of a pop/pop like it may be missing. When turned off it will sometimes have one backfire pop.

2. Tractor may "choke down" a bit when first pulling off with mower with pto running, but if it makes it past the first incline it will run for about 20 minutes (pulling through 2 to 2.5 foot tall weeds and grass nicely) then will "buck" and sound like it is out of gas - clutch in and choke pulled back will sometimes keep it running, but releasing clutch causes tractor will stop. 

3. When it first starts to sputter, if I pull PTO off pull choke back and get it turned down hill I can push choke back in (*sometimes) and ride the buck back to my barn area. 

4. Tractor temp gague goes out of the green into the white after about 20 minutes -- but tractor does not seem to be running "hot" -- there is no discharge from radiator cap (and I can see fluid in the top above the coil when stopped) and tractor does not appear to be overheated. I thougth that might be reason for stopping, but when I went out yesterday to do 20 minutes of mowing, temperature was barely in the green when it bucked and died. 

5. I do not know what kind of spark plugs were put in when it was refurbished. It does have a new distributor and new plug wires, so I figure it has new plugs. Because of info on here I bought 4 Autolite 295 and am considering putting them in. Does anyone here think I should check other things first? 

6. Anyone need a good looking D15 for a parade tractor? 

 

You say you have a shop manual, and while you claim to not be able to understand it, I suggest you look it over for the suspect areas and come on here and ask small, specific questions one section at a time, and the guys will get you through it.  It's going to take some time and patience.  If you have neither, you better have a big bank account and go buy something much much newer.

Sounds more like a 'previous owner' issue vs. an Allis issue.

As this is happening repeatedly on incline... your float could also be in need of adjustment (the specs should be in your service manual)

The snap-coupler can easily be converted to 3 point if there are other implement's you're looking to use. right around $500 for a decent one from what I've seen... there's even one in the classifieds as we speak for $300 or less in Ohio!

Best of luck!

Could be something in the carb.  They have a very simple carb and a rebuild kit usually has a parts diagram for checking every nook and cranny.  Almost seems it has to be a fuel issue.  It doesn't happen to have an inline fuel filter on it? 

Does the governor work?

To the OP, I see you've met Lonn.  He's the Senior Ambassador of our Welcoming Committee.

I'm an IH guy truth be told.

I have an all original D14 from 1959 that still runs like a top, but that doesn't mean I haven't encountered issues along the way.  If you don't enjoy working on them I wouldn't own one, sometimes getting your hands dirty and learning about these machines is the best part. 

"Beautifully Refurbished" are the words that stand out.Translation is painted and that is probably about the end of what was done.Paint can hide all sorts or problems,and entice

the inexperienced buyer to not noticed problems.First off before even trying to use and especially work on any machine you need an Owners Manual and a Service Manual.Understanding how the machine works goes a long ways toward getting it to operate correctly.

I'm betting sediment bowl stem is kinda plugged up. 'Troy', my #1 D-14 ( have 3) gave me grief last week... couple hours to wrench turning and he purrs fine, even pulling the 5' rototiller. The red flag I saw in your post was 'running for 2 or 3 minutes'. That's BAD for ANY engine !! You should always run an engine up to 'operating temperature' for 20-30 minutes. Less than that allows for huge condensation problems. All gas with ethonal in it is BAD news for engines unles you run a stabilizer or run them often. When left sitting, water comes out, drops to bottom of tank so it's FIRST into the carb, so engine , IF it starts, runs,coughs, dies...

Positive ground was the industry standard back in the 50s, cars,trucks, tractors,subways.. all +ve ground. One reason for the change was economics. Negative ground alternators were/are cheaper to make.

As for the 'snap-coupler' setup, it's far easier, for me anyway, to put ANY implement on and go, in seconds. I've even converted my 5' 3pt tiller to SC as well as the landscape rake. One of the joys of SC system. You set the implements ONCE in it's lifetime even when you connect to another similar tractor ! I can use the plow with Troy, then swap to Rockton or Paris and plowins is IDENTICAL. You can't do that with 3 point stuff !!

Jay

 I gotta ask, does your D15 have a rubber hose for a fuel line and does it have a loop in the line that runs below the carburetor inlet? Or maybe an inline filter that isn't supposed to be there?

You can do a preliminary check of the coil, by sticking your hand on it, when the tractor stalls.  If it feels real hot, you have what is known as a clue...

firing order should be 1-2-4-3, #1 is by rad,

'magical' 20 minute run could be overheating coil. There's lots of 'combinations' of coils, ballast resistors and batteries.

The simplest would be 12 volt battery and a 12 volt coil marked 'INTERNAL BALLAST'. This setup would require you to bypass the original ballast resistor. Two of my D-14s were originally 6 volt, so when I perverted to alternators and 12 volts I ADDED another ballast resistor to 'lose' the extra 6 volts the 12 volt battery supplies.

If the gas tank cap is kinda loose, then it's probably not a vacuum problem. Try running it ,under load in the field with the cap off.  Simple,easy test.

A-C made 2 or 3 models of SC-3PT adapters. 1 version is for implements that need power from the PTO ( say a rototiller) , the other doesn't ( like cultivators). You've got 3 options to buy 1) find original stuff online, 2) buy aftermarket versions , 3 ) make your own. Two of mine are A_C but bodged, not complete, 3rd is homemade. I LEAVE the toplink ON the adapted implement so I don't have to fight and adjust  it everytime. Now what you will need is the top link mounting bracket  for the tractor. It bolt under the seat, just longer bolts. LOTS of homemade versions , mine is a nice copy of the OEM 3 hole version.

Jay

 Welcome to our world! Any tractor of this vintage can have similar issues. Take a IH series M tractor. Try to hook today's 3 point implements to it. The only old tractors that have potential to match today's implements is the Ford or Ferguson systems. Some of the CASE systems were similar in the Eagle hitch. Because that FORD type system is what the industry settled on. Is it the best? NO! 

Good luck with your tractor don't give up! Keep working on it. 

Regards,

 Chris

Operator's manuals can be found cheap on e-bay - the only things I buy on that site. 

Refurbished can mean different things to different people.  It's very common for people to do a quick 30 minute paint job and call it refurbished.  As mentioned above, a cheap paint job can cover a lot of mechanical issues.  Sounds like you got sucked in - several people do.  I have learned to look under the paint and focus on the major mechanical aspects - Engine, transmission and rear end.  The issues you are dealing with are not catastrophic failures by any means.  You must also keep in mind that these tractors are over 50 years old and you probably do not know its maintenance history.  Once you have things ironed out, It should be a good and reliable machine for you.

Whenever I get a new tractor, I do a thorough maintenance so I know I will not have any problems when I put it to work.  Clean fuel tank, sediment bowl, carb, rad flush, thermostat, battery cable and wiring inspection, coil, distributor cap, wires, plugs, rotor, electronic ignition conversion, new filters and all new fluids.  Some of these may not be necessary, but I know what I have done and they should be good. 

This forum does have a great deal of knowledge and experience here, but you also have to be able provide as much detail with your issues and what you have done to try and solve them.

I've bought and used a lot of older tractors of about every brand and its a rare thing

to buy a 40 to 70 year old tractor for less than 10% of what a comparable new tractor would sell for and put it straight in the field and it needed nothing.You have to be realistic

go thru the tractor check out what it needs and expect to spend some time and money on

it because 95% of the time that is what is going to be the case.On the hitch part if you do not want to deal with the Snap Coupler and want a 3pt then you'd probably be better off to sell your tractor and buy one with a 3pt,of course I assume it was apparent that it wasn't a 3pt tractor when you bought it.

Welcome to the group!

First off... it kinda sounds like there's a whole lotta useful history that you don't have, and that makes things difficult to understand, I'll toss in a few things that others have already made some reference to:

Positive ground IS A STANDARD... as is six-volt.  Negative ground is 'modern' standard, as is twelve-volt.

The Ford you're familiar with has a Ferguson-System three-point hitch.  Harry Ferguson invented it... and Ford PARTNERED with Harry, to get EXCLUSIVE use of his PATENT.  NOBODY ELSE used a three-point hitch from the time that patented system came out, until the patent expired around 1961.   Every OTHER manufacturer had their own implement coupling and lifting system, and had their own name to go with it, and some may have gotten dangerously close... NONE of them infringed on Harry's patent.

AC's 'snap coupler' system was a standard for Allis tractors prior to 1962ish.  Case had the 'EAGLE HITCH'... IH had a system, Deere had a system, MM/Oliver/White/Cockshutt... everyone had their own.  The battleground wasn't a farmer's soil- it was the courtroom across the street from the US Patent Office.  After the Fergie patent 'matured', the 'three point' as we know it today, became a 'national standard' of sorts, albeit with more improvement, as in size category.  Just so happens my My '52 WD and '57 D17 have Category II 3-point hitches, but that's because I have a bandsaw, lathe, mill, and welder in my shop, and a Farm & Fleet on the west side of town.  They both work great with any 3-point implements I wanna hook on.  There's guys that build 3-point kits to fit your tractor, and you'll find that they yield exactly what you're looking for.

Older tractors with hydraulics had a 'different' standard as-well.  Your hydraulic system is low-volume (3gpm or so) and high pressure (excess of 3000psi).  'Modern' hydraulic systems are higher volume (5+ gpm) and lower pressure (1800-2500psi or so).

It was 'standard' back then to have hydraulics that operated DOWNSTREAM of the engine clutch... meaning... not 'live'.  This was 'standard' because a fully-live hydraulic pump can exert tremendous drag on an engine that's trying to crank to life on a cold day.  Modern tractors just accommodate that with brute force... (did I mention 12v...)

Your tractor has a distributor with contact points.  That can either be replaced with a new set of contact points, condenser, cap, wires, and plugs...   or replace the contact points and condenser with an electronic module (a Pertronix Ignitor, for example) and by doing so, eliminate the problems we experience with all the lousy imported ignition components (condensers and breaker points) that we've had for the last decade-or-so.  

The distributor cap gets dirty, and sends spark energy astray.  Spark plugs get dirty and carbon foul.  Distributor shaft wears and causes the breaker contact action to be incredibly unstable.  In many cases, there's sufficient spark energy to run nicely at idle, but when you apply a load, dynamic compression pressure rises far enough so that the ignition simply can't fire, hence, miss and bog.

Lean fuel mixtures will ignite with minimal spark energy under low dynamic pressure, but it will NOT fire once chamber pressures rise.  Carbeurator fuel float level is critical to maintain proper mixture, there's a fair chance your carb float and needle valve aren't doing so well.

There's typically a fine-mesh catch screen located in the carbeurator's fuel inlet fitting... if you have sedimentary gap in there, particularly steel sediment in ethanol... it's turning into goo and impeding flow.  Open up the drain petcock on the bottom of the fuel bowl.  it should make a big, clean puddle of gas on the ground... if it doesn't go through the fuel feed system from fuel tank onward.   if the tank is cruddy, drain it good, and clean the tank in any number of ways... my preferred method is a fist full of misc. nuts, bolts,  and washers in my parts tumbler... after they're done rolling around, the inside of the tank is usually scoured clean of loose debris... I rinse it out with a little gasoline, and clean from the top of the fuel petcock pickup tube, all the way to the carb jets.

Service manuals back then were typed by hand, then typeset with screen images, then printed on an offset press.  Press time and paper were expensive.  For the sake of realistic economics and practicality, the manual authors expected that an individual who held the manual had already sufficient life-experience with the basic recipie for internal combustion to be able to troubleshoot things like fuel, air, compression, timing, ignition... (rinse and repeat)... so they did NOT waste time or paper to rewrite what they considered 'common knowledge'.  If that's out of your current skillset, then you've come to the right place... these guys will walk you through the process, just as long as you're reasonable  and seem self-applied.

I assure you that if you were to put it alongside a modern tractor of same advertised size, that the Allis will prove itself well worthy of the tasks-at-hand, and it will last much, much longer, and cost much much less to maintain.  it DOES mean that you'll have to learn how to be the maintainer and troubleshooter.

Oh, and I know you've named it "Big Al"... but one thing you should know, is that the moniker "Big Al" refers to the Allis-Chalmers 25000-series diesel engine.  They're also referred to as the 'Purple People Eater'.  Do a Youtube search for it, and you'll see 'em in action.

[/QUOTE]Yes, Gary. I was actually excited about it having the SC. Just didn't know the equipment would be so hard to find. I just need a blade for light grading, I will make my own pasture harrow using design we used on horse training track. And, if there is a bush hog made for SC I'd change from the pull behind I have now. Next on list is front loader but not unless I get him running better. Thanks for your input. [/QUOTE]

As far as the bush hog goes I'd much rather use a pull type than any mounted one,to me they work better and hooking and unhooking is a lot easier.So you might want to

use the pull type for while, once you get used to it you may like it.

About a year ago, I found a "derelict" D15 Series II hiding out in the barn across the road from my house. Owner said if I could get it running, I could have it. I got it running......but found a host of other issues that were all eventually resolved. Your problems with running does sound like a fuel delivery or ignition issues. Frustrating, but likely as not will be an easy fix once you trace it down.

On the SC hitch.......I had major issues with the factory 3 point system and eventually converted back to a snap coupler.......sorta. I installed this 3 point conversion kit onto it and it, which in my mind is the best of both worlds. Uses standard Cat I 3 point hitch implements or drawbar without need to remove anything, and the SC hitch setup is stronger than the factory 3 point.

This 3 point conversion kit is made by Cross Manufacturing and is available from several sources......

Not that I've got it running and have put it into use, it is a handy helper around here. Currently being used to rake and tedder hay.

ou mentioned putting a 3 point on your D15, which I have done to mine. I bought the adapter from Tonys Tractors. Had to drill 1 hole in drawbar to mount the adapter but otherwise was very easy to do.  Top link bracket mounts under seat, and the Cross style lower links are mounted to the drawbar.  Works quite well.  Only limitation is there is no position control with the modified snap coupler.

By the way...

For those that work on lots of 4 cylinder engines, you may think that the Allis firing order is 'not standard'...  Many others frequently used 1-4-3-2.

When an Allis 4 cylinder (B, C, CA, WC, WD, WD45, D17) engine is running, and you have relatively close compression and valves set within reasonable range, and there's no vacuum or exhaust manifold leaks, the engine will run so even on all four cylinders, that you will NOT be able to tell which cylinder is firing.

On a 1432 firing order, that's not usually the case.  Here's why:

The intake and exhaust manifolds on four cylinder inline engines consist of one central point, which happens to be physically closer to the center two ports, than the outer two ports.  This means intake and exhaust flow to the two outer cylinders makes a longer trip, than the two closer... so the port and runner distance for the outer two cylinders has different volume, and different velocity.    Allis's design engineers understood this.  They also understood that when you fired two cylinders adjacent to eachother, that the intake and exhaust pressure pulses from one cylinder, affects the adjacent cylinder.

They also realized that when you 'share' a port (as virtually every other manufacturer did), you wind up with 'funky' airflow.

So they designed the ports, runners, and FIRING ORDER to yield really close (not perfect, but really darned close) balance between all cylinders.

Next time you're listening to an engine, listen for the weak and strong exhaust pulses, and watch the crankshaft turn.  If you watch the crankshaft sheave with your peripheral vision, you'll probably be able to 'see' the crankshaft angle 'match up' with the rythm generated by a weaker power pulse.

As for other characteristics to note... and the other guys will chime in if I'm wrong...

I believe the 'small block' B/C/CA/D10/12/14/15) fours might be susceptible to the 'big block' (WC/WD/45/D17) manifold leak and erosion issue, so look out for exhaust and intake leaks always.  Exhaust manifolds, because of basic thermal expansion, expand and contract more than the  liquid-cooled head.  Allis's casting engineers did an awesome job coming up with ways to allow for that, and maintain a seal, but seals don't last forever.  After these machines have spent five decades in the field, the head bolts start to corrode and stretch faster, and a little exhaust leaks out, typically at the farthest ends ('accumulated deflection', because it's expanding in an arc).  On a dark night, one can 'see' exhaust manifold leaks as little wisps of fire sneaking out 'tween the manifold flange and head.  This greatly affects how well a cylinder breathes, and furthermore, erodes the cast iron where that blue flame licks away the metal.  When this happens, it's necessary to either resurface or replace the manifold and put in new gaskets.  When I acquired my D17, it had been sitting for half a decade, parked due to lack of power after it'd been running a while.  After a carb/tank cleanout, I experienced power drop after putting a load on it for a few minutes.  Rebuilding distributor and going electronic ignition helped (dizzy shaft was loose in the bushing, as they do), but making a climb up the gravel road hillside to my south one night, I saw 'afterburner' flares out the #1 towards the cooling fan, and knew what was up.  After fixing that, it has run flawlessly.

BTW... you CAN convert your tractor to 12v negative ground if you so desire.  All of mine are, and I've changed mine all to alternator, rather than generator. 

The polarity sensitive issues include the battery connections, ammeter connections, ignition coil connections, and generator and regulator

Battery connections obviously need to be swapped. 

Ammeter leads, also need to be swapped (if not, charge indicates discharge, and discharge indicates charge).  If you ever wonder if someone has hooked up a battery wrong, leave ignition off, turn on the lights.  If the ammeter needle shows charge, it's backwards!

Ignition coil.  Ignition coils will 'work' when wired in either direction, but with the ignition coil's polarity being backwards, you'll get excessive pitting on the contact points, and rapid plug erosion.  Some ignition coils (typically less expensive or 'high-performance' coils) are wound such that they'll internally 'leak' to case in operation, and the coil will erode, overheat and fail.  OEM Delco coils that these tractors were built with, were built very well... as were the breaker points and condensers.  Modern 'common' replacements are all sourced through southeast Asia, and for lack of a stronger, but socially overwhelming term, they downright suck.  Don't be surprised if a tuneup kit, brand new out of box, has a flaccid point spring and totally unuseable condenser.

Generator and regulator will they will change polarity easily, but they need to be worked a bit in order to 'unlearn' positive ground and 'learn' negative ground.  In more technical terms, the polepieces of the generator and regulator develop residual magnetism accordant to the polarity with which they were previously tasked.  Changing polarity means the polepieces need to be degaussed (cleared of that magnetism) and slightly magnetized in the new polarity.  Doesn't take fancy machinery to do it, as they will do it by 'brute force' as long as you start the machine up and make the electrical system do some hard work for a while.  Or you can disconnect the regulator wires, tape them, fit an alternator to it, and be happy.  There's a myriad of options, everyone has favorites, and every alternator (ooh... brace yourself for a bad pun) has it's PLUSSES AND MINUSES! 

(sorry, I just couldn't help myself).

Switching to 12v:

Replace Ignition coil and Light bulbs (go LED!) with LED.

If you stick with generator and regulator, you'll need to either replace regulator with a 12v unit, or crank up the output voltage.  Your generator's windings will likely GO to 12v, but the generator will not develop a substantial charge unless the engine is really spinning.  An alternator is an easier, faster, more reliable, and more economical choice for 12v conversion... besides, when a guy converts his 6v+ tractor to 12v-, he's gonna USE it, not take it to a show to be scrutinized by the 'correct police'.

Nothing else matters- starter and solenoid is fine as-is.

 Good job staying with the Allis. 

You will get there! Pictures are always welcome. The link picture you posted was small.

Regards,

 Chris

C-Reid-Mac wrote:   I reconnected fuel line, opened valve to sediment bowl, opened drain on bottom of carb, gas immediately began flowing through at a steady stream. I was counting 30 seconds and as I got to 20 the stream became intermittent and was just a drip by 25.

Ah HAH!

Okay... before you try anything else... open it again... and see if it does same thing.

IF IT DOES... Remove the fuel tank cap.  if it starts flowing again, you have a bad fuel cap vent!

If it does not...

Remove the fuel line from carbeurator.  Does it start flowing?  if so, there's some piece of gunk wandering around between the carb inlet and the float valve... OR... there's something plugging up your fuel bowl petcock (and the float bowl is probably filling).

I had a buddy that had a devil of a time with his little IH tractor... it LOVED to mow hillsides, but as soon as he got to the flat area atop of the hill, it would lean out and stall.  He pulled out the carb, adjusted the float level, and opened up the mixture adjustment screw, because obviously this was 'the altitude', right?

After doing that same thing over several times, and having the same result, he resigned to being insane, and opened up the fuel tank, to find three saturated beech nuts rolling around in the bottom of the tank.  As long as he was on the hill, them beech nuts would roll away from the fuel pickup, but as soon as he got on the flats, they'd roll down and cover the sediment bowl inlet...

Thanks Dave Kamp, for the explanation of the firing order and reason for it.  I had never considered that.  Also for the explanation of why the manifold can start to leak.  All good info!

I got off and felt the regulator -- It was hot, it was not "sizzling hot" but was hotter than I wanted to keep my hand on. Would that play into Big Al running hot?  I see no numbers on the regulator but did study the service manual about replacing it. Should I do spark plugs first and then reg or vice versa? 

I used Al today for about 20 minutes pulling the mower as a sled to bring some downed tree limbs to a burn pile. We have had torrential rain here and he was outside through the most recent rains. He turned over 3 or 4 times before firing the first go round, but after that he fired right up every time (4 restarts) I started him in the field. His temp was barely in the green (on the cool end). PTO was not on and load was not heavy and I was on a gently sloping area of pasture. (Thunder is rattling the windows as more thunderstorms power wash the roof of the front veranda outside my office.)  

I apologize for taking this long to update -- took a while to get back in the field and verify that Big Al was indeed going to be able to get the work done. I patted him on the hood today, apologized for leaving him out in the rain (again) and told him I was going to let you guys know he was alive and well.  Thanks again for all your initial input. I look foward to learning from this forum and Big Al himself. Keep Moving Forward. 

Sounds about right to me! You may still have some gremlins in the mix somewhere too. possibly timing, or even points? They like it when they get out and do some work.