front tranny seal / 645 payloader
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=158677
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 4:23am
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Topic: front tranny seal / 645 payloader
Posted By: darrel in ND
Subject: front tranny seal / 645 payloader
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 5:51pm
| On my son's 645 payloader that he bought about 4 months ago, the front driveline seal on the transmission was leaking badly right away. We took it apart, found the seal to look reletivly new, but none the less, leaking very badly. The rubber on the seal was ripped about half way around. The son thought he ripped it removing the seal; I wasn't so sure. Anyhow, the sealing surface on the yoke was smooth as glass, and there was absolutely no play in the shaft whatsoever. So we put a new seal in, and called the old one a fluke. New one has held up. .....until today. Seen a puddle under it, and no oil on the dipstick. So I added about 4 gallons. Wasn't leaking at first, most likely because oil was too cold and stiff to leak. But by the time I got done feeding, it was dripping out pretty good. (Or bad, depends on how you look at it). Not nearly as bad as it leaked the first time, but bad enough. It'll still be off the dipstick again by tomorrow, but will just take it a little longer to drain out. Now the seal we took out, and the one we put back in are just a common lip seal. Is there supposed to be a little heavier duty one in there ore something. Like a triple seal, or something with an "O" ring instead of a lip seal. Or am I building up case pressure in the transmission that shouldn't be there. Does the case maybe vent through the dipstick cap. Maybe I need to check that. Or does it vent somewhere else that may be plugged. Or am I chasing the wrong problem. Any help / ideas welcome. Thanks, Darrel |
Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 5:57pm
| Should be a spiral inside the housing designed to pull the oil back from the seal area as on most transmissions I have seen, if not then take out the old seal, measure the seal install bore then measure the shaft diameter. Go to a decent parts house that can look up by dimensions(Bearing Warehouse can do too). Chances are you have the wrong seal in there. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 6:43pm
|
There is supposed to be a vent. If you turn the loader to the right, and shut it down, so you have some room in the center. Look on the top on the transmission, right side as you are looking at the transmission, near the pump, and you should find it. Just curious. Was it one of the seals I crossed from the number in the parts book or a different one? You might want to give Minnpar call to see what they have. Jim |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 7:43pm
| Thanks guys. Jim, I am not sure which seal got put in. I gave my son the numbers that you gave me and he came up with the seal through NAPA. The spiral thing that was mentioned above has my curiosity up. I'll have to look into that. Darrel |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 8:43pm
| It would be interesting to know what the seal is on the opposite end (to the rear axle) of the shaft,as the same seal is on both ends. But it isn't leaking so don't go there. It seems many of the old seals are being replaced by lighter and thinner ones. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 8:49am
| Up-date: I have not found a housing vent on the transmission, which concerns me a little. Most likely just haven't been able to see it. Did get a seal that is about twice as heavy or more than the first one we took out, and the one we replaced it with that went out again. I am pretty confident that this new one will hold back a good deal more than the precious ones, but for peace of mind, I'd sure like to get my hands on the vent. Is there any where that a person could get an online parts diagram of the transmission, so I could see just exactly where this elusive case vent is at. Thanks, Darrel |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:07am
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Hi Darrel, I found the parts books on Minnpar's website. There are a couple different ones but the seals for the drive shaft were the same in the books (I think I checked all of them at the time). I'll see if I can spot the vent again and try to post a link. Jim |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:11am
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what serial #? series? https://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.asp?FName=FIAT-ALLIS%20%28CNH%29%20MANUALS&SFName=CNH%20%28FIAT-ALLIS%29%20WHEEL%20LOADER%20PARTS%20MANUALS" rel="nofollow - https://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.asp?FName=FIAT-ALLIS%20%28CNH%29%20MANUALS&SFName=CNH%20%28FIAT-ALLIS%29%20WHEEL%20LOADER%20PARTS%20MANUALS ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:18am
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Here is a link to the Fiat Allis loader parts manual index at Minnpar. 4 choices on the 645s. HTH Jim https://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.asp?FName=FIAT%2DALLIS%20%28CNH%29%20MANUALS&SFName=CNH%20%28FIAT%2DALLIS%29%20WHEEL%20LOADER%20PARTS%20MANUALS" rel="nofollow - Minnpar Fiat Allis loader parts manuals index page |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:31am
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645 prior to serial 2032. vent is shown of pg. 81 of pdf 645-b vent in same place. guessing they all are #11  ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:59am
| Wow! Talk about fast service. Thanks guys. I see in the last picture there that I was looking in all the wrong places. Going to head out here shortly and see what I can find. darrel |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 10:02am
|
The folks in this site are the best. They love their tractors and go above and beyond to help. ------------- HD16DC, Bobcat 863 Turbo, Oliver 1855, John Deere 855, |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 10:03am
that and sitting at a desk gets pretty boring sometimes. lol  ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 10:06am
|
The folks in this site are the best. They love their tractors and go above and beyond to help. ------------- HD16DC, Bobcat 863 Turbo, Oliver 1855, John Deere 855, |
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 10:09am
| I have been texting with Darrel since this came to life this morning. cal is right. work is just an excuse to surf the web! |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 10:44am
| I have to put in a plug for "im4racin" here. His dad has the Napa store up in Garrison, ND. Him and his dad went out of their way to find me this heavier duty seal. Thanks man! Darrel |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 4:55pm
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I use to use a bearing and seal catalogue I got from a bearing house to cross items between mfg . if I had one part number . Also many seals do have different designs as inclusion or exclusion seals - I used a Garlock seal many places - it used a flat fingered spring system rather than the wound spring to hold seal lips in place . There are seals that are double or triple lipped - You might check also if there is any wear on surface and try a speedy sleeve on shaft to be sure of smooth surface - or like i found on one transmission the bearing was rough and in certain positions as the balls rotated the shaft would jump enough to wipe out seal ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 4:06am
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Coke One of our local suppliers has a well thumbed copy of (IIRC) an IBR Bearing Replacement Catalogue. It was extremely handy when I was getting our AC 45 going in that it went from Allis part number to bearing maker and type. Even came up with current Torringtons for the steering box. Also handy is that the FA 10 dozer parts book gives bearings by part number as expected. Then at the back is a table that translates Fiat part numbers into standard bearing talk.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2019 at 1:07pm
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Those little tricks and tips had saved a lot of equipment over the years for me both in my job as a Millwright and on my own equipment . Finding a bearing by size but also by type - then finding different types of seals also - from going from old felt seal used on a tractor spindle to a double lip seal and using a more fluid grease in the bearing system . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 9:21pm
| The steering pump is on that (left) side and may kinda hide that breather |