http://www.lubricheck.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.lubricheck.com/

I do not go by hours.  When I check the oil, I take a look at the color of the oil on the dip stick, then I think about when the last time I changed the oil was.  I never let it go too far though.

There's quite a few things that will make an oil change necessary.  Two things for the "sitters" low hour uses will be condensation and the accelerated affects of water contamination such as increase in TAN (total acid number) and oxidation. The oil itself will be fine sitting for extended periods.  It's the contamination suspended in the oil that needs to be removed. 

Also, starting them without letting them get to full operating temperature for an extended period of time is extremely bad for the oil.  It's better not to start them at all if you can get them up to full temp for a while.

The Lubricheck is a hokey attempt at oil condition monitoring.  It cannot tell you everything you need to know.  It will give people a false sense of security or cause alarm when there's nothing wrong.  You should really use a commercial oil analysis laboratory and have your oil checked.  Once you have performed a baseline to get an idea, you can make oil change decisions from there. 

I have offered to help forum members before.  I am a long time AC forum member and been driving AC's for more than 40 years.  This is not a plug for my company since my target customers are large commercial and industrial customers. I own Apex Oil Lab in Grand Rapids, MI.  I will run full analysis on forum members oil for $10.00.  That will cover my cost for consumables and labor.  We can run all lubricating oil such as engine, transmission/hyd, gear etc.  Google apex oil lab to get the office contact information.  Ask for Jason so I can get you the pricing I posted.  Our single kits are normally priced at $34.95.

Jason

On a diesel???

Dave

I'll post a sample report tomorrow when I get back in the office. 

Jason

DougS wrote: The problem I’ve always had with oil tests is they cost as much or more than the oil change itself. If you have something that takes 10 quarts of oil, I could see where a test might be worth it.

Doug,

In most cases the cost of analysis may be more than the cost of the oil.  Depends on what your end goal is for the analysis or oil change.

Ideally you always want to get back a perfect report with everything's fine.  It's the one time that you get one back with coolant contamination that you were unaware of but haven't damaged the engine yet.  Or your seeing excessive wear that you now have a heads up that there may be a serious issue before a catastrophic unexpected failure.  This is not as critical to a collector, but for someone that needs the equipment to perform in the field under extreme condition and time constraints a heads up is worth potentially thousands of dollars.  Most collectors or hobby farmers will do it out of interest but not necessity. 

Jason

uploads/1216/Advance_Mixer_Sample_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/1216/Advance_Mixer_Sample_Report.pdf

Here's one of our sample reports.  Depending on the component type, we run different ASTM standards.  Hydraulic fluid will get a particle count as well.

Jason

Dave(inMA) wrote: Thanks for posting the sample, Jason. Kinda like reading the results when my doc tests my blood! The only time she gets worked up is when a result falls outside the acceptable range......or when something is worsening over time. All those results look ok. Does the note about oil change in the yellow box mean the oil was changed between test dates, or was the same oil tested on both dates? I'd guess that the trend over time would be useful for oil testing, too.

The note in the yellow box "Oil Changed" means the oil was changed at the time of sampling and is not longer in the crankcase at the time of analysis.   If the note states "Sampled Only" that let's us know that the oil being reviewed is currently still in use.

Jason

Click on above. I put one of these hour meters on my freshly rebuilt WC. At first I was changing oil at 100 hours but the oil was still very clean. I now go to 160 to 170 hours which is when the oil gets a little dark on the dipstick. These hour meters run as long as the ignition is on. The mechanical meters basically count engine revolutions so the time mounts up faster at higher throttle settings. This is probably why my WC can run up to 160 hours and still be fairly clean because hours mount up the same at idle as at higher throttle settings..

The area inside the blue is the current sample data and diagnostic results.  As more samples for the same asset are added, you will see the other columns fill in as well. The red TAN is to show what happens when a warning limit is breached.  TAN is mostly used on natural and methane gas engines, industrial lubricants etc.  The TBN is an important value for engines really targeted for diesel engines, natural gas and methane gas engines.

The ppm water is actually low and in the "normal range". 109.9 ppm = .01099%

TBN is the oils reserve alkalinity to offset acid and oxidation.  When oil falls below 50% of the starting value is typically when you should start looking to change the oil.  Having a TBN of 7 as a flagging point is way to soon.  If you have a new oil with a starting TBN of 8 - 8.5 your TBN will drop almost 1 full point shortly after install then slowly come down as the oil is being used while TAN (total acid number) starts to come up.  Most engine manufacturers and oil blenders have put limits of 50% of the starting TBN.  This allows some additionally buffering for extended drains if needed.  Newer low ash HD engine oils have a lower TBN than in the past due to the emission equipment of engines.

As an oil analysis lab, we follow guidelines mandated by several different sources.  Engine manufacturers, oil blenders, customer specific alarm limits and government regulations such as RICE NEESHAP and other regulations.  Most of our industrial customers in power generation pull samples every 2 weeks to closely monitor changes in condition.  Their engines are very large 16-20 cylinder CAT's and Jenbacher 420's running 24 hours a day and some running very nasty landfill methane gas and natural gas.  The starting TBN for those oils are typically 4 - 6.2 TBN with a few as low as a starting point of 2.1.  TAN is typically flagged at 3 full points over the starting point which is typically around .03.  Some products such as Chevron HDAX 3200 & 5200 start at 1 so the flagging point will be 4.  The industry has gone away from TAN on diesel engines due to other flagging point to consider.

HD diesel on road and off road engines are mush easier to diagnose because they are more predictable.  Unless there's a mechanical issue, they trend fairly steady.

Procedures and oils have change significantly over the past 10 years.  A lot of changes just over the past 2.  We have to constantly monitor changes in oil formulations to be more accurate. 

Acidity in oil comes mainly from byproducts of combustion, if we follow the first assumption that there are not outside contaminates being introduced into the oil (i.e. it is stored in a dry place so excess moisture isn't introduced into the crankcase and it is being run long enough to warm up completely and evaporate any moisture in the engine), then the oil will buffer a certain amount of acidity with its additive package.  Thus, you change the oil, park the tractor for 6 months before using it, it shouldn't be much different than if you changed the oil right before you started it for the first time.  Likewise, if you run a tractor and it produces "x" amount of acid that is absorbed and buffered by the oil, that chemical reaction is going to happen rather quickly in the grand scheme of things, so if you look at the oil a week after running vs a year, not a whole log has changed.  Suspended solids may fall out of suspension, but if that happens, it should either be caught by filter when started again or pulled back into suspension.  

There are a lot of variables into a proper suggestion for you, but it really comes down to what you are comfortable with and how you use your equipment.  I had a tribology (study of lubrication) professor in engineering school that used to say, sometimes you had to lubricate the parts, but other times you had to lubricate the customers (it sounds a little wrong, but what  he meant was sometimes you have to do something just to make the customers feel comfortable).  The example he gave had to do with one of the early synthetic formulations at Mobil that was blue in its natural form.  No one would buy it because they were scared by the oil color, but as soon as they dyed it brown, they couldn't keep it on the shelf.  So whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable with the decision.

Hurst