Hi-lo charge
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=157079
Printed Date: 05 May 2025 at 1:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hi-lo charge
Posted By: HagerAC
Subject: Hi-lo charge
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 8:46pm
|
I have been working on my wd45 lately, trying to get the electrical system back in shape. It's still a 6v system. It's got a over bore kit in it and I've gotten it to start better after replacing the battery cables. I need it to start in the winter because I'm gonna be using it for moving snow at our new house. Anyway I've been working on the lights as well. Got them all working. My question is the the hi lo charge switch. The first position seems to be lo charge. The second position turns the lights on but it shows discharge. The last position is hi charge. My thoughts is that something is not hooked up right. I would think the lights should come on in the last position but also be on hi charge. I would think mid position would be hi charge with no lights. I am gonna take it apart tomorrow night, just wondering others thoughts. Been awhile since I've worked on a system like this. Our other wd and wd45 are both 12v. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Replies:
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 9:00pm
|
HagerAC, I think its worth the effort to convert it to 12 volt. You know how the other tractors start! Especially if you really want it to start in the cold. With that said my go to snow plow tractor is the 53 Jubilee still on 6 volt. Yea if they are in good shape with good wiring and battery they will and did work for years! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 9:23pm
|
This tractor is a fairly nice original and I'd like to leave it a 6v. New cables really made a difference. One nice thing is this one starts really good, so as long as it rolls over a couple times it's running. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: BigGuy1000
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 10:07pm
|
Your light switch is working OK, second position with lights on may show slight charge or slight discharge(depends on condition of your generator and batt., rev motor to half throttle), last position should show about 10 or 12 amps charging with lights off!!! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 10:12pm
|
It does charge about 10 amps at high charge. It shows about 3-4 amps discharge with lights on, does not change with rpm. It also shows a couple amps charge in the first position. I would like to see it charging a few amps with the lights on. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: LionelinKY
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 1:09am
|
Your switch works the same as mine(low-lights-high) as you pull it out. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the lights run off the battery at all times even with the tractor running. The cutout is to control whether the generator is actually producing charge for the system based on the battery condition which is also what the ammeter shows you. A fully charged battery(6V+) means that the generator should be basically "off" via the cutout not charging the battery any longer-just producing enough juice to run the engine-meaning that the ammeter should be around "0". Turning on the lights should show discharge initially until the cutout/generator senses that battery voltage is dropping and thus kick in which would result in amps going up(+). As the tractor runs and the generator works, the amps should drop back around "0" as the battery gets charged up again and the cutout again turns the charging system off. This cycle should continue as long as you run the tractor with the lights on because the generator is going to rest (system discharge) until the cutout kicks in making it charge again (amps+) until battery reaches full voltage again and cutout kicks out again which shows on your ammeter as around "0". Serious discharge on your ammeter means that the generator isn't up to par and/or your cutout is failing. You didn't say how long you have run it for so I am going to assume not that long right now as you are just working on it. Short runs while you are playing with it you would expect the system to be in slight discharge while running especially if the battery is in good shape or you are keeping it that way with a charger while you tinker with it. You are probably not running it long enough for the cutout to sense that the battery voltage has dropped beyond the desired point thus triggering the generator into charge mode. Let it run longer to see if the charging cycle actually works (off-on-off) (- to + to - amps again) OR your - amps just keep dropping. I wouldn't worry about 3-4 amps discharge especially if it is holding there under full electrical load. Not a bad margin of error for those old components. If it gets worse, then you know you have some work to do. HTH ------------- "My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic" |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 5:09am
Hook up a volt meter to the battery, run it a few hrs, watch the battery voltage, and see if/how it changes over time...
|
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 5:29am
|
You are correct Lionel that If wired correctly the ammeter shows how many amps are going to, or coming from the battery, not total generator output. However the cutout relay does not have a clue what condition the battery is in. It only sences output voltage and closes. The 3 brush generator puts out x voltage on low charge and X voltage at high charge with the third brush position determining the charge voltage. That being said the system should keep up with lights at half throttle and show a slight charge wide open. With everything in good shape this usually requires the 3rd brush be set to charge at 7.5 volts or so with the field grounded(high charge) |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 5:53am
|
How many lights you have on tractor .What amp bulbs u running. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 5:57am
|
As I recall the manual says the ammeter should show about a 3 AMP charge rate with the lights on. Adjusting the third brush may correct this. Also check the connections on the light switch resistor as well as the ground connection on the switch box. Look for tight connections and no corrosion. Consider that the ammeter may not be accurate too. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 6:14am
| Have you thought about changing the cutout relay to a (6 volt) voltage regulator? It eliminates over charging the battery and you can replace the light switch with a push-pull regular light switch. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 6:20am
|
I have the 2 front lights and then I have a rear work light as well as the tail light on the fender. I will try running it longer and see if it changes after some time. How would I go about adjusting the third brush? ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 6:45am
|
Don't mess with the third brush until you've checked everything else first. Usually it is factory-set correctly. Adjusting the brush to make up for worn brushes or poor connections will only make it harder to find the real problem. Remember that the light switch must ground firmly to the case and the case must ground firmly to the battery box. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 7:00am
Yes, and also do not mess with it unless you have a test meter hooked up. |
DougS wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 7:10am
| And, make absolutely sure the instrument panel has that screw installed at the lower left corner. This connection must be rust free and the screw tight for the ground to the light switch. If there is a poor ground, the light switch gen charge feature cannot work right. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 2:58pm
|
So I was playing with it a little at lunch today. When I pull the switch into the second position it shows the higher charge, until I get it out far enough to kick the lights on, then it shows about 5 amps discharge. That tells me that it is charging with the lights on, but not keeping up. My dad thought I should adjust the third brush as well. I will have to put a screw in the instrument box. It is rusted out where it used to be. I will try that and see if that helps as well ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 3:14pm
|
Clean it well around that rusted area before you replace the screw. If the generator has never been touched on that tractor there's a good chance it could use an overhaul. Add: What rate does it charge in the low charge position? The book specifies 3 AMPS. Setting it too high will result in overcharging the battery. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 4:10pm
|
It charges probably 2-3 amps on low charge ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 6:50pm
|
I’m beginning to think you have a bad contact on your light switch. Short the F terminal on the generator to ground while the lights are on and have someone tell you what the ammeter does. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 4:59am
Yes and run that ground directly to the battery post so you bypass all connections. A volt reading would help at this point but if grounding the field causes it to charge more you need to go into detective mode and find the ground issue. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 5:31am
|
Here's how that switch should work: 1st Position- 2-3 amp charge through the resistor to the Battery 2nd Position- Headlights ON resistor bypassed 5-8 amp charge (depending on the position of the third brush) 3rd position- NO lights- full charge Also make sure the Field circuit is connected to the resistor leg and your Headlight circuit is connected to the "S" terminal on the switch tower. As the Doc mentioned, that H/L switch is a self-grounding switch, so it needs to be grounded correctly to instrument panel box. I always tell our customers to run an aux. ground off that #10 mounting screw to the Battery Pos Grd cable to insure the switch is grounded. The cutout has nothing to do with charging. All that does is sever the Battery from the Gennie at very low rpm or when the Tractor is off. This elimnates the Gennie pulling power from the Battery when the Tractor sits.. HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 7:49am
|
Just know that if the ammeter raises to any positive reading after shorting the F terminal to the frame the issue will be with your ground bonds or your light switch. If not, the issue might be resolved by adjusting the third brush, but the genny brushes could very well be worn out too. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 7:54am
|
I am gonna do some investigating on it today. Thanks fellas ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 8:21am
|
Before you even troubleshoot anything on the Tractor, you really need to establish that the components that make up the system are in good working order. Starting with the Battery. Have the Battery draw tested to make sure your power supply is good number 1. Next, pull the Gennie & cutout relay and take it to a replicable auto electric shop that can run them through some load tests and see what condition the Gennie is in and whether or not it can do the deed. If right there is where you have some issues, get the Gennie straightened out so you know that's working correctly. Next, go through the wiring, and make sure the wiring is in excellent shape. Check for shorts or peeled back jackets where a ground could take place. Test the Ammeter and make sure that is working properly. All these components make up and are part of the charging system. One component that doesn't meet to spec will throw the system off. Once everything is checked over for correct operation, put it all together on the Tractor and see what ya got. It'll be much easier to troubleshoot knowing ALL components are correct to spec... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: HoughMade
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 9:08am
|
I still have the original 6v system, generator, lights, 3 position switch on my B. With no other changes, I was amazed that I went from lazy charging and a slight discharge with the lights on to really good charging generally and a decent charge with the lights on when I cleaned the switch and replaced all 5 wires in the system with good, large enough wires with properly terminated connections- no other hardware changes. (5 wires because I have a mag). ------------- 1951 B |