R40 Vs R50
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=155823
Printed Date: 01 Jun 2025 at 4:05am
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Topic: R40 Vs R50
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Subject: R40 Vs R50
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 8:37pm
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In the market for a combine. I stopped at the local dealer the other day, they have an R40 and an R50. Price wasn't to bad on either one. I need to run a 4 row wide, (36") corn head and not more than 16' grain head for soybeans. Enlighten me on these two, the good, bad, and the ugly. I don't need it until next fall but don't want to wait until the last minute. If the right machine came along at a good price I would buy tomorrow. |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 8:59pm
| In their prototype stage, I believe they were referred to as the N-3 and N-4. They are the same machines except for the final drives/drive wheels, rear axle/rear wheels, grain bin capacity and engine HP. The R-50 also has the inside of the cage chrome plated for longer life. R-50 can take a 6-30 CH at 3.0 to 3.5 MPH in 200 bushel corn and when dumping at the fields end can produce 1,000 to 1,200 BPH in the wagon. R-40 will be a little less production because of less HP and smaller grain tank (150 versus 200 bushels). |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 9:08pm
| I don't think the tires will go between 4-36" rows. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 9:42pm
| I would think it would depend on what it had for tires weather you could do 4 row wide unless you get a deal on a combine then switch tires to fit your needs. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 10:51pm
| I think 4-36 is OK, but you must have wheel skirts on the corn head. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 5:50am
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Here's a late model orange stripe R40. I happen to know the owner. Not sure on the shape of the heads but the machine hasn't had many hours put on it since he's owned it. Still gets used a little bit every year. Price is combine only. https://rmn.craigslist.org/grd/d/gleaner-r40/6709278958.html" rel="nofollow - https://rmn.craigslist.org/grd/d/gleaner-r40/6709278958.html ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jim NEIN
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 6:13am
| i got an R52 with axel extentions and i run a 436 head no problem 24.5 tires |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 8:40am
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Thanks for the input and the link. Been running a 6620 sidehill and that pig is wide. The 'partnership' dissolved after harvest, that is why I'm looking for a different machine. Just want to get one bought with enough time to go through it before harvest next year to minimize problems in the field. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 1:51pm
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There was a big change in '89 - early ones did not have the reel drive system and had to have a pump on the head - be careful as heads are hard to come by for early ones and the later ones will fit- but will have to have the pump / motor and switch to use off a 'donor' head. Those electric motors for the old heads will likely be froze up a$ well... I like the 500 heads on these with the raised feather sheets on the LH/RH side. The R40 had the option of a chromed cage - few ordered it so check for cage wear on the 40's. All these had Deutz engines - check these out as you would any other engine - with the exception of having someone crank a cold engine and listen for a 'pop' 'pop' for a few sections - this indicates the unit has been hot and has a bad fire ring seat - (head gasket) . The rest of the unit is chains, belts, hydraulics, bearings and electrical items. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 8:00pm
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Lonn wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 11:02pm
Come on Ryan! You get done quicker.Do corn and beans in the same day!!! That's like saying your pickup has too much horsepower.
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 11:44pm
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The price seems fair for that many hours and years. Probably do a better job on hillsides then a old hillside machine, and a lot easier to maintain. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 12:58pm
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Pretty sure the throat is smaller on R40??? ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:12pm
| Pretty sure the R-40 and R-50 are identical in the throat width/size and the whole machine except for final drives/drive wheels, rear axle and rear wheels. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:17pm
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Neighbor has R40 and claimed throat was smaller, me dont know! ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:26pm
| It is smaller !!.....than an N-5/6/7...….R-5/6/7....R-60/70.....R-62/72.....R-65/75. The R-40/50/42/52 are the smallest at about 28 inches versus 38 inches for the big frame machines. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:37pm
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AHA!!! He was correct  good neighbor so I really wanted to believe him!------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 2:31pm
| That is the first orange stripe R40 I have ever seen. I have seen plenty of the bigger ones. I remember when Deutz Allis/Gleaner was patting itself on the back for doing away with the green stripe and going orange again. Ryan |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 3:22pm
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Not sure on frame width on a 4-36 head but it should work with a R50 and 30.5-32 tires without having any deflectors but im not 100$% positive. I do know you can run a 4-38 without deflectors since thats what we had on our R50 since it was new. Either a R40 or 50 are very, very easy to work on and the capacity in corn is just incredible. Really they were an engineering marvel for what they could do with the size of rotor and throat they had. ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 3:23pm
I don't think that was Deutz-Allis, but the Allis-Gleaner company.
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 7:10pm
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Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 9:30am
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I don't disbelieve anything here; i just have a question because keeping track of gleaner combine numbers can be challenging! you stated you think proto numbers were N3-4. where does the R4 and R5 series combines fit into the equation? ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 9:58am
| Never was an R-4. Prototype years were under the ownership of Allis-Chalmers and they intended on two chassis of combines....wide body (N-6/N-7) and a narrow body (N-4/N-5). When the N-6/N-7 came out (1978/79), there were many Customers who wanted a smaller "class 5" machine closer to the size of a TR70 New Holland, IH 1440/1460. Apparently the N-4/N-5 machine was no where near ready to go if it even existed at that time. So, the N-5 was created by cheapening up an N-6 a bit. Less HP, smaller grain tank, lighter final drives, etc. It was a BIG class 5 rotary combine with possible performance close to an N-6 with proper tweaking. By the mid 1980's A-C sold to Deutz, and by 1987 the replacement for the N-5/R-5 (and L-3) came out as an R-50 (prototype N-4) with the new P-3 processor and Deutz power. It was smaller, lighter and cheaper to build than an N-5/R-5 ever could be and if the N-5/R-5 was stock, the new R-50 filled in pretty well and then the R-40 came on board shortly thereafter. At nearly the same time the R-60/R70's (Deutz power)came along replacing the R-6/R-7. The small narrow body machine was in prototype for a long time before it ever hit the market. The 1980's were tough times and in 1985 Ownership changed. I got to run a 1986 R-50 prototype that had no model designation on it at all. Next year it was released as the R-50 a small class 5 combine. Also, there never was an R-4/R-5. If they ever were released, that would have been done during the A-C ownership with an A-C engine. Didn't happen....AC didn't have the $$$ to come out with two new machines and sales weren't that great at the time either...1985-86. |
Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 4:30pm
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thank you for that. gleaner combine sales dropped here in that era! ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 4:46pm
| The R50 is a good machine, we had 24.5x32's on ours, ran a 318 flex head, and a 5-36 corn head. Later it had an 8-30 corn head. On occasion we would put a 4-36 corn head on to help out the relatives, I don't remember any issues with doing so. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 5:04pm
| I truly believe as the original N-series (and the P-1 processor system) was being changed/updated/improved/and fixed season after season, the Engineers took a long hard look at what not to do in the next generations combine harvesting system and the result was the P-3 processor in the new small chassis combine. The 70 inch long P-3 processor was born in 1987 with the R-50. P-3 technology didn't get adapted into the big frame 90 inch long rotors until late 1990 in the later model R-60/R-70 machines. By "P-3" , I am referring to: #1. taller reversible segmented and more aggressive cylinder bars. #2. A cage with 1" x 1 1/4" holes and thicker material and less removeable doors for a much stronger cage structure. #3. a separator grate on the bottom of the left side. #4. a concave that is 100% or more larger in degrees of wrap and adjusted from the rear instead of the front. #5. helical bars that are channel iron for two edges of crop control. #6. discharge paddles on every row on the rotor #7. more room around the cage eliminating the need for a cage sweep #8. accelerator rolls positioned at 15 degree angle to throw the grain into the cleaning fan pre-blast of air #9. straw chopper that utilized the same simple belt drive as an impeller did. #10. straw spreader that did a better job of spreading fodder. These ten changes in design were a big deal, not only in performance, but in service life of the harvesting part of the machine. Pretty much all this remained very much the same from 1987 up thru the last R-66/R-76 series. The Super series just took these time proven features and made everything larger in diameter to squeeze even more productivity out of the 90 inch transverse rotor design. I wasn't there watching all this happen. I just think that is how it went down over the years of development. |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 9:33pm
Prototype numbers was N-4 for sure, i hadn't heard the talk of the N-3's until its been mentioned on here on the forum quite a few times. On the N-4's, each machine in 1986 were supposed to cover 1000 acres for that fall in which all off them did with ease to my understanding except one had lots of mechanical issues. Dr. Allis, you were able to run one of the debadged prototypes? Was it one of the companies 2 machines or one that went to one of the 5 farmers that purchased one? ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 7:26am
| We didn't talk financing, but I think this was one he kept for another season. It was a legit R-50 but on the side of the grain tank it was blank...no decal. Reede from Marshalltown might remember. It was in their territory and this particular Customer was a neighbor of my Uncles. |
Posted By: BKarpel
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 11:58am
| Grandpa had a R40 with a 4 36 head. It worked fine. I think he used the same head from his F2. The R40 was Deutz powered. Good on fuel and always started. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 1:53pm
| If he used the head from his F-2, he made it fit the R-40, because there wasn't any "kit" from A-C or D-A or AGCO to do that. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 3:52pm
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The only way was to put on a L/M kit drive kit- then modify it with a Bisch - Harv's Farm adaptor or make one by welding up an L/M upper plate. This offset the head as it centered it on the throat - bummer - We offset the black heads to the throat and made our own kit centered on the combine - this required filler plates and auger flight rework to make them feed. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |