Vacant house air circulation
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Topic: Vacant house air circulation
Posted By: Steve A
Subject: Vacant house air circulation
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 8:35am
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I have a two story farm house at my farm, which is about 200 miles from my residence. I get there about once a month, more often in the fall. The house is two story, 1500 sq ft, built mid 1800's stone/mortar basement. Problem is it gets musty/mildew from being closed up for long periods. Tried bags of charcoal to absorb humidity. Since spring, I have been trying to increase air circulation passively within it, thinking that would dry it out. Installed 3" PVC tube through three walls on first floor, and screen in upstairs scuttle to attic, thinking Bernoulli effect of drawing air upward through it. Seemed to work fine for a month or so. However now I get the impression it is pulling some damp air out of basement during summer. I don't heat it most of the year--propane or electricity to run dehumidifier would cost me an arm and a leg, so trying to do it with wind currents. Thought of running PVC tube up basement to roof, and putting turbine vent on it to draw air into basement and see if that circulates and dries it out. Also considered putting humidity controlled flaps on the other vents to shut them if outside humidity goes over 90% (i.e. rain, fog). Any suggestions? |
Replies:
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 12:08pm
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You could paint the stone foundation walls/floor with a waterproofing paint/sealer and if that's not an option you might want to install a vapor barrier to the underside of the floor above the basement. Spray foam would work great here but is expensive. That's all I can come up with. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 1:13pm
| rent it out. a home will deteriorate faster without someone living there! |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 1:13pm
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They sell Chloride for absorbing moisture for humidity control - several buckets of that set in places will pull moisture out . Roof venting using a turbine would work but controlling when they do draw air in and from where is the problem as any air drawn into basement will be cooled and cool air loses moisture (why basements feel damp and are) and even a closed house man be cooler inside that outside so again moisture will condense out when it hits a cooler space . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 2:08pm
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OK 1st dumb idea... put powerful solar powered fan on chimney to draw that air in DOWN into basement, assuming there's a 'cleanout', remove it to let air into basement. crack basement door open a tad and access to attic. The idea is to have a constant ,steady flow of air in motion. if you could put more solar fans in each room ,just to move it around a bit I think would help. Overall the idea is to get air in motion.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 5:11pm
| Thanks fellas. Basement is 1/2 6ft deep high stone/cement floor, and 1/2 crawl on dirt with rocks holding beams up. Abstract for farm dates to 1835, and I suspect that's when the house was first built, deep two story part then, and added crawl part later. My dad insulated it and sheeted it with plywood/vinyl siding 1980. As to renting, too far away to manage, and its deer /turkey camp for us in the fal, and maple syrup camp in the spring. I've tried renting and it was more hassle/headache than income. I agree, air movement the key. Considered window open, but rain and break ins, which I is why using PVC vents. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 5:35pm
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No electricity right? |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 6:02pm
Probably has no vapor barrier, in all of the basement. Any plastic you can put over the dirt will lessen the amount of water vapor venting into the house...
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Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 9:06pm
| also watch out for mold. you can't see it, but it'll be there in an empty house. I got caught up with that in Dad's house when it was empty for about a year before we got someone in it to live. almost died from it, took over a week in the hospital after being in the house for an hour. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:36pm
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If you have double hung windows with storms and screens, you can open the lower storm an inch, then drop down the upper sash the same amount. for security you drill a small hole thru the inside trim into each sash, insert a thin dowel, or a screw. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 7:49am
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Vapor barriers or paint will do NOTHING to control moisture in the basement. The basement , being under ground stays below the dew point temp all summer long, so any outside humid air brought in only condenses on whatever is below the dew point temp. The only way to keep it dry, is limit outside air coming in or warm all surfaces to a point above the dew point temp. I have a half basement of limestone walls, with minimal air leaks. I dump 3 to 4 gallons of water out of the dehumidifier daily to keep it below 65% humidity. It's the only way I can keep the ductwork from raining on my basement floor when the air conditioner is running in the summer time. It used to dry out a bit more in the winter when I had a wood burner in the basement, but my current primary heat is a corn burner so the basement doesn't get near as warm or stay as dry. I recently saw a "This old house" episode where the owner added a wood floor in his basement and it rotted. The stupid answer, or repair, was to lay a vapor barrier down, pour concrete over it and replace the wood frame floor with treated lumber. The problem with that is, the dew point temp of the new concrete will soon be the same as the rest of the basement and moisture in the air WILL condense on it. I don't care how good a vapor barrier you have, if outside humid air meets cool basement floors, water condenses. The water doesn't come up thru the floor, it comes from the air. A better fix would have been to insulate the new concrete and plumb it for heat, to get the temp above the dew point. A might more costly, but the only effective way to limit condensation if air in the basement is humid. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:17am
| Going to have to run a dehumidifier in summer then run heat in winter or this will persist. A small consolation as to keeping the house livable rather than seeing mold/mildew/insects take up residence and destroying the value of if not the entire home. |
Posted By: weiner
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 1:44pm
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When the furnace is off for the summer, the dehumidifier is on and stays on till the furnace starts to run again. ------------- Real heros wear dogtags, not capes. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 5:32pm
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YEP...... I have an underground garage, built into a hill side... It gets to 85% humidity easy and saw / drill / press use to drip water....... Added a dehumidifier and set it at 65% and no problem for several years......... That is the ONLY fix. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 7:11pm
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Dehumidifiers aren't the only way, but often the most cost effective. My brother who has the same designed and built old brick house, as we do used to use de-humidifier, when he changed hot water tanks, went an electric unit, that has a heat pump, to scavenge latent heat in the house, since then, hasn't needed the dehumidifier... Note I didn't say vapor barrier will stop moisture, but it sure helps! [TUBE]YeMqq5T2dCQ[/TUBE]
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 6:05am
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I see a couple of problems about using a 'heat pump hot water unit'.... 1st it only comes on when there's a demand for hot water. IE , once the tank is 'up to temperature', it shuts off 2nd, it'll have a 'backup' akak convential heater and use it when required. If the house was occupied , I can see it working as a dehumidifer but with no one home, there's no demand for water so it'd shut off. A real dehumidifer will work as required BUT a HUGE problem is keeping the unit CLEAN. Dust will coat the fins, stick to the cold /wet 'dew' and in a few days not work or overheat. I've had to clean a LOT of them 'brown boxes' ove rthe years. Clean the gorf off, oil the fan and they generally work for a few more months. Maybe some big (20") fans could be 'stategically' placed , put on low or medium and on timers. That way the air does get moved and it wouldn't cost a lot. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 6:24am
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We live in an old stone farm house. The house is on grade so no basement. When we remodeled I started with vapor barrier under new concrete slab with radiant floor heat, framed out inside and spray foamed closed cell insulation. I also installed ductwork with AH in the attic and Geothermal HVAC [ that's what I do] Our temperature is steady all year, Our humidity is low and if I need to dry it out I can turn up the radiant floor heat and the ducted system will remove the humidity. In your case your best bet is to seal/ vapor barrier everything best you can and Install a dehumidifier. I like the Aprilair whole house dehumidifier. they have several models. for comparison they will remove 95 + pints/day as compared to 30 pints per day that the little portable units will remove also they come with a washable air filter that is easy to maintain. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 10:02am
folks could save z lot of time if the lectricity ques is answered.  that is the only answer if the house is to be kept in good order. |
Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 4:00pm
| Electricity stays on year round. Just ask Consumers Power. What I puzzle over is why the house gets musty, but the garage does not. Only thing that makes sense is air circulation or basement |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 4:22pm
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Steve, buy a dehumidifier for $200. and install and run for a month. It don't cost that much to run. You probably pay $40 month FIXED cost if you use any power or not, so the bill may not go up..... A couple of 20 inch box fans will move the air around the house and one dehumidifier might do it......... Run for a month as "A TEST"... I think you will be surprised.
You might want to buy a couple cheap " humidity meters" to see what is happening at various points in the house ......... 70-80% FEELS musty ........ get that to 55-60% and no problem. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 5:24pm
| Thank you for all the responses and insight. I appreciate it! |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 5:49am
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Steve (ill) gave the numbers i go by also. If I walk into the basement and it smells like a basement, the humidity will be around 75. I kick on the dehumidifier and the next day it doesn't smell like a basement with the humdity at around 60. BTW, There are humidifiers rated for running in the basement. There is a difference, my basement model works great down there. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 7:10am
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Since this is a long term, no one home 'project', I'dbuy say a 20by20 high quality furnace filter, build a box for it so that the basement air goes through the filter and into the dehumidifer. This 'prefilter' system will get rid of modt(all) of the flying gorf in the air and NOT attach itself to the condenser/evaporator sections of the dehumidifer. Without it ,what happens, is the unit work cycles fine, when off, water drips off, then back on, dust gets 'glued' to the fins and such. Over a few cycles or days, this builds up and poof..it overheats, shuts off, 'doesn't work'. It's kinda amazing( disgusting really) the amount of 'crud' in the air, so spending $20 for this prefilter would be a wise investment especially since you're not around often. just food for thought... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 7:17am
| Where are you going to drain the moisture collected on an unattended dehumidifier? Floor drain? |
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 9:07am
| https://www.basementsystems.com/company/all-things-basementy.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.basementsystems.com/company/all-things-basementy.html |
Posted By: BKarpel
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 9:42am
| Does the house have air conditioning? If it does set it in the low to mid 80s. A air conditioner is a big dehumidifier. You need to get the moisture out to protect the plaster walls. |