190xt steering trouble
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=152584
Printed Date: 03 Oct 2025 at 4:38pm
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Topic: 190xt steering trouble
Posted By: Fireman216
Subject: 190xt steering trouble
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 2:12pm
| Ok I'm at a loss. 190xt diesel, hydraulic pump went out last year, loss of all hydraulics. I bought a used pump on ebay because I needed a internal shaft for the pump that went bad. I bought a rebuild kit for my pump, put all back together and everything worked great but now no steering. I used last summer to disc with it, had no problems just no steering. I have cleaned diverter countless times, had steer cylinder rebuilt, had steer motor rebuilt. I had an extra housing that sits on the back of the pump that holds the diverter valve so I changed that out. If I unhook either of the lines going into the steer cylinder it blows fluid 20 ft. out of the hose that is unhooked when steering wheel is turned that way. since I have had the steer motor rebuilt, I have also lost the ability to steer at all. Steering wheel will not turn either way unless a hose is unhooked at steer cylinder. I have bled the system, triple checked every step I have made. All the hydraulics work now, just no steering. Any ideas would be great! |
Replies:
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 5:25pm
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Any chance the steering cylinder was put together "backwards"? If V ring seals used and installed backwards, it could be sealing the center portion of the cylinder as opposed to moving it. That's only a guess...seems to be an odd one. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 8:59pm
| I can't imagine it was put together wrong, its a pretty good machine shop that did it, they do at lot of them for the pipeline. plus nothing has changed since it was redone. I am totally stumped. I am going to have an AIS guy that works on the neighbors farm equipment stop and have a look at it. He is very good at doing the proper tests on stuff which I am not! I just have to wrangle him one of these days. He likes a good challenge. I was just hoping someone on here maybe had some intel on a relief valve or anything that I could look at. Some times its the simplest thing overlooked. Thanks for the reply!! |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 6:14am
| Just a guess but do you have hoses in the wrong place on the steering pump. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 7:04am
| I thought the same thing, I did put them originally in the connections labeled l R T P. I did change the two left and right hoses just for fun, and the they were right the first time. What little turn out of them I did get was the opposite direction. The tank and pump hoses you can not get wrong, two different connections. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 7:23am
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Any chance one of the wheel spindles is bound up or frozen? ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 7:25am
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Have you tried slightly cracking the fittings on the steering motor so just a little fluid can escape along with any air that's locked in the system then turning the steering wheel back and forth? |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 7:43am
| Steering motor is put together wrong. MACK |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 8:16am
| The spindles are not frozen, I have lifted up the front to see if no weight on it made a difference, and had to turn the wheels to get the front pin out of the steer cylinder. As for the steer motor put together wrong, I have had a suspicion of this since the hard to turn steering wheel started once it was re-sealed. But the guy that re-sealed it has been doing it for years, I will call him and get his take on it. At least before the steer motor was sealed I could drive it, now its like there is pressure on both sides of the steer cylinder and its fighting it self when I try to turn the wheel. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 8:19am
| I have bled everything many times also. If I start it with the steer cylinder lines disconnected no fluid comes out until I turn the wheel, and only one hose at a time like it should. lots of pressure. |
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 8:24am
| take one hose off at cylinder check pressure |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 11:04am
| I would bet a dollar Mack is right if it was taken apart and put back together and it didn't work after that something isn't right in the steering motor. First time I took a power director apart I didn't line up the halves when I put it back together and only had one range, you get it right the next time you do it. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 3:27pm
| Can someone post a pic of the back of the hydraulic pump, mainly the two steel lines. I have been looking online and it appears to me that I may have these two lines hooked up backwards. The line that runs to the front to the cooler is on the outside of the pump and the line heading towards the rear is inboard closest to the motor. It seems to me I vaguely remember this being opposite the first time I took it apart. I have been looking at some pics and videos up close on line and it appears I may have them backwards. It can't be this easy can it??? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 3:38pm
| Pretty sure they are crossed and it isn't the first time that's ever happened. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 4:07pm
| Thanks, I will try that in a bit. I will keep you posted. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 11:04pm
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Fireman216, I am looking at 190 XT service book, and it shows a picture of the steering body set with the bottom end up, and the mounting end down... and has the ports facing you... upper left port is the "R" (connect to rod end) upper right is the "In" port (connect to pump pressure line) lower left port is the "L" port, (connect to the base port of steering cylinder) lower right port is the "OUT" port, connect to pump return line. Do you have the triple section pump or the dual section pump? ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 1:28pm
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I have switched the L and R both ways(as marked on the steer motor) as for the in and out I couldn't get those wrong they have two different ends on them. I did switch the two steel lines on the back of the hydraulic pump last night, and the only difference it made was now if I touch the steering wheel either direction it moves about an inch, and the wheels take off on their own in one direction or the other and the steering wheel turns in the oppiste directon on its own. Or, if I just bump the wheel it starts shaking left and right hard. Mack very well may be right and the steer motor is put together wrong. I just cant find the guys number that rebuilt it. I may just drive over to him and ask him about it. Does any one know if there is a relief valve or something that could be stuck open or closed to put too much pressure to the steering? Just a thought since the pump was hooked up backwards?
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Posted By: Dave H (NE)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 8:38pm
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when the steering wheel shakes left and right it is put together out of time. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 8:39pm
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Meaning the steer motor is out of time? |
Posted By: Dave H (NE)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 8:47pm
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the steering motor is out of time. the shaft in it is splined to the gerotor and is off one spline. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 10:02pm
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Somebody could have taken the fittings off and then reinstalled them wrong after he was done rebuilding it... So is it closest to the bottom end cap of steering housing? ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 9:04am
| Well then I will track down the guy that rebuilt it see what he says. At least this gives me an avenue to try. As for the fittings, I drew a diagram of all four of the ports and what hoses went to each and I have checked it fifty times. I know the return and pressure side are correct. I thought the same thing about him taking fittings off. And I also took pics and a video just so I didn't miss anything. Thanks for the help guys!! I will keep ya posted! Off to cut hay! |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 8:35pm
| Well Dave and Mack were right! Steer motor was put together wrong. Took the one off my 7000 that has a spun rod bearing and WA-LA!! So I will take it back to the guy that rebuilt it and have it re-done. IF anyone wants to buy a maroon belly 7000 with a 649 motor and a spun rod bearing I will sell!! Will have a new steer motor!lol |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 9:32pm
| But, you still had those two lines on the back of the hydraulic pump crossed. You had two problems. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 9:56pm
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not very familiar with these systems. Our Gleaner L3 has the steering wheel shaking issue, but it does steer. The steering wheel just shakes left to right. Only thing...sometimes if you turn the wheel really fast, you will feel a loss of all resistance and the combine won't steer. Turn the wheel slower and steering resumes.
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Dave H (NE) wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 10:12pm
| Creston, I get a little of that once in a while in my F2.Think it has more to do with age than anything. Pretty sure it's not your unit messed up somehow. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 10:00pm
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I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but here is a link to a video showing what the steering wheel does while driving, with my hands off the wheel. The combine has 1,400 actual separator hours, and has this issue, but a friend of mine has a pair of M2s and an L3 with probably over 5,000 hours each and none of them do this. http://youtu.be/kGap1WATgmg" rel="nofollow - http://youtu.be/kGap1WATgmg
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Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 3:21pm
| If you lightly hold it does it fight you? Looks like ground to wheel contact wobble to me. The shake I had was very very fast and I had a hard time stopping it. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 9:41pm
| Yes, it does fight when you hold your hand on it, and even trying to hold it still with both hands won't stop it. I didn't think with hydrostatic steering there could be any ground feedback. |
Posted By: Fireman216
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2018 at 9:06am
| Well then maybe your steer motor is going bod? Maybe call Worthington and see how much a used motor would be? I think that's what I would do. It sounds like what mine was doing but not as extreme. The guy that rebuilt mine said it was getting worn out do to little particles of dirt over the years wearing on the internal parts if the hydraulic filter wasn't changed much from the previous owner. I could see where that would affect it. |