Allis WC head gasket change tips and tricks
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=148606
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Topic: Allis WC head gasket change tips and tricks
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Subject: Allis WC head gasket change tips and tricks
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 10:13am
| I'm going to be changing my head gasket on my 47 wc and was looking for some tips and tricks like how to torque head what pattern what to use for cleaning etc... Any help is appreciated thanks ahead of time! |
Replies:
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 1:14pm
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Should be covered in the WC shop manual pieces I have on line at: http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%201.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%201.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%202.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%202.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%203.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%203.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%204.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%204.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%205.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%205.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%206.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%206.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%207.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%207.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%208.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%208.pdf http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%209.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/wc%20service%20pt%209.pdf Each section is large just under 10 MB. Gerald J. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 2:53pm
|
Do you have the regular manual that would have tourque specs? |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 3:11pm
| Clean. Clean. And then clean again. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 7:24am
|
Be really careful not to drop junk down in the cylinder when cleaning. You'll never get it back out... He's a topic a wrote last year when I rebuilt my WD45 last year. There a couple sections about head rebuilds and install. Sorry the pictures got screwed up by photobucket. http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd45-rebuild-progress_topic126761_page1.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd45-rebuild-progress_topic126761_page1.html
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 7:26am
| http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/201-engine-assembly_topic118485.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/201-engine-assembly_topic118485.html Here's another good one by littlemarv |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 8:57am
| Clean all block bolt holes with a thread tap and compressed air. Use light grease or oil on head bolt threads. If you don't paint the head gasket with something, it will probably seep water and oil. I prefer to use a Hylomar type sealer applied with my finger around all water holes, push rod holes, and all the way around the outer edge of the gasket on BOTH sides. Retorque after some running time when stone cold. All tappets at .015" when cold. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 11:45am
  Been using this for years .You can buy it in small tubes , ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 11:54am
| Interesting, I've never seen that before. Would it be similar to #2 permatex non hardening sealer? |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 11:56am
|
Dave , Not even close ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 12:05pm
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Here you go. http://hylomar.com/hylomar-product-range/gasket-jointing-compounds/" rel="nofollow - http://hylomar.com/hylomar-product-range/gasket-jointing-compounds/ ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 12:14pm
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This might help too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gKbg8ah0c4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gKbg8ah0c4 ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 6:39am
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So should I put that around all the holes head and block or on both sides of the head gasket? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 7:06am
| Either way works. Just make sure you spread it thin with no globs. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 8:19pm
|
Dose any one have a diagram of how to tourque the studs and specs |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 8:44pm
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There should be a diagram and torque specifications in one of the WC shop manual sections I posted above. I haven't memorized them to know which section covers engine assembly. Gerald J. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 10:05pm
| https://www.amazon.com/Hylomar-Universal-Blue-3-5-Tube/dp/B00XLWUO0A/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1521774135&sr=1-3&keywords=Hylomar%C2%AE+Universal+Blue" rel="nofollow - The Hylomar Universal Blue is available through Amazon. I tried to post the link, but couldn't get the link to work. |
Posted By: GreenMule
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 11:24pm
| you can get it on e-bay also, going to try it |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 6:33am
|
Best to buy it on e-bay ,I get mine from a local Speed Shop ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 8:05am
| It doesn't show how to reinstall the head in there dose any one know ?? |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 9:34am
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Be aware that using any kind of sealer on some head gaskets, Fel-Pro comes to mind,voids the warrantee. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 9:49am
|
http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd45-rebuild-progress_topic126761_page2.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd45-rebuild-progress_topic126761_page2.html Here's my thread on my WD45 head installation. Pretty similar. Torque the 1/2 bolts and studs to 90ft lb. The 3/8 studs get 25lbs per the Allis service manual. From Memory only, tighten the 1/2 bolts and studs starting in the center and working out. The 3/8's studs get tightened last. Center stud first then the 2 outers. For more detailed info about re-torqueing or may being torqueing in steps, read the above thread. If you have more questions let us know.
|
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 10:14am
|
That shop manual sure skips cylinder head installation. As does the op and maintenance manual available at: http://grandpas-tractor-site.s3.amazonaws.com/manuals/ac/WC-WF-RC/wc-operators-manual-complete.pdf?javer=1803231002" rel="nofollow - http://grandpas-tractor-site.s3.amazonaws.com/manuals/ac/WC-WF-RC/wc-operators-manual-complete.pdf?javer=1803231002 So I guess Dave's extraction from WD manual can be applied. Gerald J. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 10:42am
| So I did the head gasket put it all together and it runs on 3 cylinders I checked spark it has super strong spark spark plugs is good I'm lost on what to do any suggestions |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 10:49am
| You start by making sure the plug wires are on correctly. Firing order is 1-2-4-3. Then, you run a simple compression test to verify good and equal compression pressures. Do this with the throttle WIDE OPEN and a battery charger on the battery. Make each cylinder hit at least 6 times or more. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 10:56am
|
I'm pretty positive it's compression but what would cause it to have little compression with a new head gasket? |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 10:58am
| Do you have a valve that is stuck open? |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:00am
|
No |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:07am
| Maybe I should have said, do you have a valve that is not closing completely? |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:09am
|
A valve that hasn't been ground to the seat can leak even if it appears to close. Could be caused by a weak or short spring too. A cylinder can be low on compression from a broken or badly worn piston ring. Do the compression test and if one tests low, squirt some crankcase oil into the cylinder and see if that improves the compression. Oil usually does improve poor compression if the problem is piston rings but not if the problem is a valve not sealing. Gerald J. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:12am
| I'm curious why you replaced the head gasket. Did you have a problem with it running on 3 cylinders before you replaced the head gasket? Did you have the head resurfaced? Was any work done on the valves, guides or seats? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:19am
| You can speculate until the cows come home on what you think your compression actually is. Get a compression tester and KNOW what it is. Go from there. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:42am
| It over heated and blew the head gasket it got to about 215 before I shut it down it over heated due to a leaking radiator I bought the head gasket did it I cleaned the head pretty good to my ability but didn't touch the valves I also used copper coat on the gasket |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 3:05pm
| recheck valve lash and do the compression test.Only way to know if you get to take it apart again. Could have broken rings on that cyl. |
Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 3:07pm
|
Valve lash?? |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 4:18pm
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I wouldn't say 215 was near hot enough to blow the head gasket. What did the sleeves look like? Any scoring or grooves cut? I'd be more inclined to think it's a valve issue, but like the good Dr says, without actual compression test numbers, all we are doing is guessing. AaronSEIA |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2018 at 7:24am
Did you set the valve stem tip to rocker arm clearance with a feeler gauge after reinstalling the head? This is a must.
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AllisWCLaRock wrote:Posted By: AllisWCLaRock
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2018 at 4:12pm
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I adjusted the valve lash and it runs on all 4 and has good comp but it now it runs rough and back fires unless you give it half choke and it just had a carb rebuild |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2018 at 5:09pm
| And what is the compression ????? Just because the carb was gone thru doesn't mean it is adjusted properly. Open up the main jet one full turn and see what happens. |