WARTIME TRACTORS
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=147683
Printed Date: 19 Aug 2025 at 11:50am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: WARTIME TRACTORS
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Subject: WARTIME TRACTORS
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 8:49pm
|
Hello, Hoping this turns into a good post for information purposes. So when people say wartime allis chalmers tractors what qualifies for this? War dates from 1939-1945....Do any tractors made during this time qualify as a "Wartime Tractor"? When I think of the wartime tractors I think of the B...C...and WC...some of which were the stamped steel rearend WC's. Please chime in on wartime varients...All Steel wheel...steel in front ...rubber in the back....tip toe steel vs standard cleats ect. Thanks in advance. A Google search on the dates of WW2 show 1939-1945 but I guess the US wasn't involved during all of it. PLEASE POST PICS OF YOUR WAR MODELS AND TELL A LITTLE ABOUT THEM. 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 9:04pm
|
Several brands and models during WWII went to steel wheels because rubber for tires was directed to military uses. Some also reduced the use of steel for frames and accessories because steel was also desired for military uses. The Ford 2N was one of those. And then there were tractors made for the military with variations on the domestic farm tractors like the military B: http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/BMilitary.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/BMilitary.pdf The US wasn't involved in that war until December 7, 1941. Gerald J. |
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 9:17pm
| Us war production for gm is late 42 through late 45. I would guess allis would be about the same. I don't remember the date that the war production board required the switch from civilian to war production was. Too bad all the allis historical records were lost... |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 9:29pm
| I agree on the allis records being lost. That is unfortunate. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:34am
| On purpose, Hummm? |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 5:47am
|
Technically and obviously, a wartime tractor is one made from Dec 7/8 1941 through Sept 5, 1945. Specifically, war tractors are the ones that have special make discrepancies from the standard run ones. The WC used the stamped steel rearend. I have heard the B/C had some differences as well. Other colors had other things going on. It would be a fascinating buy if someone were to research all the farming/equipment issues of WW2 and turn it into a well illustrated book. AaronSEIA |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 10:18am
| Is there anything to be said for the WC in the wartime era having the normal steel rear wheels versus the skeletonized or tiptoe rear steel wheels? Did one style rear steel wheel come out later or earlier? |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 12:28pm
|
The definition of 'wartime' is certainly a point of contention, so I'll put forth my notes: In my opinion, A 'wartime' product is one that was not necessarily made within the boundaries of any specific time, but rather, it's production was in some way affected by the war, be it the direct result of governmental production edict, or circumstances, or contracting, tooling, production, resources, or sales. I consider these qualifications because there were some things that were SOLD as mid-war items, but were actually assembled from parts/resources/etc that were manufactured PRIOR to any war-related impact. There were also circumstances PRIOR to DECLARATION of war, that came into effect as a result of clear-and-present war circumstances. US involvement in the war was not immediate, but our circumstances were already impacted. We were manufacturing and shipping elsewhere as part of lend-lease programs, and our domestic production was directly impacted by that production. There were circumstances AFTER the war, that had a direct impact on domestic production... for example, chromium and nickle plating materials were somewhat delayed in release to domestic manufacturing, and as a result, some manufacturers sent cars out the door with temporary wood bumpers. So if you have a tractor that was manufactured and/or sold at some point prior-to, or after the war, but was somehow impacted by the war, it is IMO a 'wartime' tractor. I'll further complicate the concept by noting that 'war-era' production moniker wasn't just about making products for domestic use... but that many products you would initially not consider worthy of 'war material' status, were produced and sold as that... and tractors were in that class of 'special consideration'... just like milk-jugs and sewing machines... anything that was used to make things used to support wartime efforts, EVEN IF it was not used by the US... was blessed for production... ... AND... sometimes, the impact wasn't so much in terms of just one company, but the fact that one company got substantial contracts for one type of part, which as a result, impacted their ability to produce components of other systems, so 'contract farming-out' occurred. I'd hafta go back and look at my notes, but I believe the 'stamped steel' axle circumstance was the result of contracting logistics. See... Allis-Chalmers wasn't a 'tractor' company. They were a 'power equipment' company, who's greatest strength was in their ability to melt huge quantities of metal, and produce all sorts of special iron and steel components for manufacturing electrical power generators, transformers, transmission equpiment (circuit breakers, switchgear). Tractors was more-or-less an afterthought. Let's say that you're contracted to make the turbines and generators for Hoover, Mead and Davis Dam... and let's say the end-bells for those huge generators weigh in around 110t each... you're not gonna melt 110t of iron for that pour... you're gonna melt 150t. You'll pour off the first bit from the top, to clear any sl*g, then you'll pour the main casting, then you'll pour the remaining off into a mess of smaller molds all around... that way you KNOW that 110t casting will have not only enough material, but the BEST material of the pour. For Allis-Chalmers, they realized the cost of the big pour was high, but the cost of the big pour was also a big risk... better to overshoot, and recover the excess by pouring lots of other smaller castings for other markets... so that's what they did. Now, they had plenty of other things going on... when it came to making those rearends, well, it was probably a situation where they could clear the backlog of half-assembled tractors by contracting a 'slightly modified' truck axle from some other source, to put into the remaining WCs. I believe the axle was actually a Studebaker design used for heavy trucks... and it MAY be that the circumstances of that selection were facilitated by A-C using their casting capacity to provide castings that the axle manufacturer needed, but didn't have on their own. It very well may have been a 'work-product trade'... as these things DID happen. So... it's complicated. Suffice to say, if it's in the timeframe where ANY aspect had impact, then it was a 'wartime' machine...it's just that some are more obviously affected than others. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Bob-Maine
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:17pm
|
I own a '44 WC that I bought from the son of the original owner. He and I are going to sit down over coffee ASAP and I will interview him for an article to submit to Dave and Heidi Clausen of the Old Allis News. The fellow I bought it from has some interesting information on buying a new Allis during WWII. Bob@allisdowneast ------------- I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not sure. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:20pm
| Bob that sounds very interesting. The fellas that remember this stuff are leaving fast. Please keep us in the loop on this so we can watch for more info. |
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 3:14pm
|
Ration. One definition is "to restrict the supply of to so much for each." Wartime tractors were always taught to me as being built between 1942-1946. Almost every tractor Manufacturer put out models that were stripped-down of rubber and electric components. My Grandfather and Father sold farm machinery during that time. According to them, it was not a picnic dealing the Government War Department. You had to get written permission from the War Dept. to purchase any new piece of farm equipment during those years. I still have some of the paperwork and ration stamps from that era. My family was/is as patriotic as any other but the level of red tape that had to be gone through back then gave Grandpa and Dad a certain level of distrust in the federal government. The supply of new farm equipment became short, but the supply of older equipment, and the need to continue to farm was still there. However, the Government needed all available older unused machinery to be turned in and scrapped for the war effort. Grandpa at first refused to turn in anything, citing the need for those farm families who didn't go to war to keep going. Eventually he had to give in under threat of incarceration to have his used equipment lot cut and smashed up for junk. Many Fordsons, Cross-Motor Cases, Allis 18-30's, Farmall Regulars, McCormick 10-20's, Moline Universals, Ford Model T cars, and numerous plows, disc's drags, and other misc were destroyed. All were running trade-ins and still had life left in them. Just think about how many more of these tractors would be around if they were not scrapped. After that, the "Black Market" tractor craze began. New and used tractors were sold for cash without the government paperwork. Many had the serial number ground off, or the tags removed so not to be traced. Tractors were still difficult to buy well after the war ended. That's how we got to see all kinds of "Odd-Ball" tractors being manufactured. Some were homemade in garages and barns. This is just the tip of the iceberg that i was told about the wartime effort. I am proud of all the Veterans who served at that time, and greatly appreciate that they defended this nation from all foreign invaders. I do agree that a book about wartime agricultural history is long overdue. Most people living today have no idea what went on during the war years while our troops were fighting. ------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 3:24pm
| Very good info. Thanks Jim! |
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 3:44pm
My 1942 Farmall H "Wartime" tractor. This tractor was owned by a family in my neighborhood. It was put back on rubber in 1948. The steel wheels were cut down and welded on rims. The electric parts were never put back on. It was neglected for many years and sat in a barn because nobody wanted to crank it. I bought it in 2009. I found the correct date coded front and rear steel and put it back together with a quick repaint.  I know it's not Orange, I honestly do not own any wartime A-C's on steel. ------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 3:47pm
|
Wartime tractors had some noticeable differences. The WCs had the welded steel rear end and steel wheels. Now these serial numbers are not all going to be in the same time period. Some tractors will have a cast rear ends with serial numbers within the same range as steal rear ends. In discussions with a retired factor worker I learned that rear end housings got piled in one area and they grabbed what ever was the top one on the pile, well another group of housings got brought in and piled up over the existing housings and the top housing was grabbed and put into production and so on and so on. Productivity was the main goal, not using a certain style of housing in a certain order. As far as Bs and Cs, they had more differences. All had steel wheels. Bs had fender extensions over the wheels, both had an extended air cleaner pipe, Cs had heavier cast centers on the rear wheels as I believe Bs did as well? Some one correct me if Im wrong. Both had starter hole plugs and battery box delete plates as they did not have lights or starter. LaPorte had some differences also. The combines had steel wheels, many of these were able to be converted over to rubber immediately so few remain with steel. I have one of these steel wheel combines, the axles are spring loaded to absorb the ride of the steel wheels. Towards the end of the war the LaPorte plant got ahold of some war surplus aluminum, being they were desperate to gets combines built they used aluminum for sheet metal on the combines. Many of these units had issues of cracking sheet metal. They used aluminum on other pieces as well. I have a outside divider for a corn picker that is aluminum. I have not seen any others but Im sure there are some more out there. I have two steel rear end WCs and a set of steel wheels. Some time Im hoping to get one tractor put together and hook it to my steel wheel 60 combine. That would be a cool setup. Jim ------------- An open eye is much more observant than an open mouth |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 4:04pm
|
My opinion of "war time" was a physical description, not a DATE built... I always think of a "war tractor" as having something DIFFERENT than the standard... steel tires/wheels, cast valve covers, big fenders, tall air intake, etc....... maybe not everything, but you would need "some" of the modifications, in my opinion ...... and the date should be 1940- 1946 era... I would not call a 1949 with these mods a "war time" .......... but I would not call a 1944 tractor that has been changed to look like a 1950 a " war time" either.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 4:29pm
|
Speaking of "Black Market" for farm equipment. We had such a dealer about a mile from us. He stated he was not a "Black Marketeer" but a redistributor. He found equipment that could not be used in some parts of the country (C tractors in mid west states) and shipped them to his place in Maryland where there was a heavy demand. I still remember Pop seeing a trailer load of C tractors that was destined for our "redistributor". The serial numbers and other identification had been filed off. Sold them for cash for whatever the market would bear. No questions! He sold all he could get. Beginning in 1942 things started to disappear from the tractors I knew - starters, rubber, pressed steel oil pans and valve covers - and whatever else was decided to be needed for the war effort. Pop moved his supply of rubber tires inside for safety. I remember playing in them thinking I was in a submarine. Also, we had half breeds - tractors with rubber front but steel rear wheels. Quite a time Labor was very scarce since all able bodied young men were in the service. Pop put me to work - 9 years old - mounting steel wheel cleats, putting together combines, running parts, selling equipment - can you imagine that but I did - and any other item of work that I could do to make his day easier. One of my jobs was putting on the Farm Commando stickers Anyway it was a most interesting time to live through. The United States knew it had to WIN THAT WAR and we all did everything we could to accomplish that. Remember we were "fitin the War" None of this stuff that is going on today. We were for perhaps the only time I remember a UNITED COUNTRY Just a few thoughts. Good Luck! Bill Long |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 5:58pm
| I had the other Orange tractor, a 1944 SC case. I am not that familiar with them to know what was different. It did have cast wheels in the front, which not all SC had, but I thought it might be an option for weight. What I did notice was that there was obviously 2 different grades of sheet metal used. THe hood was crappy stuff that rusted easy. The grill however was not rusted and straight. Looked like it came off 2 different tractors but pretty sure not. When I stripped the paint off the grill, the metal was so good and clean the US STEEL stamp was still visible. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 9:02pm
|
I had a wartime Allis 'C' a few years ago that I sold to another local collector. When he restored it, he found after stripping it down that the right fender was aluminum and the other was steel. Both were originally fitted to the tractor as far as we know as it was an unmolested original. |
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 9:29pm
| There was talk of scrap...I remember grandpa talking about having to load so many rail cars to get an allotment for a new tractor. Wish I could remember more of the details. |
Posted By: Don(MI)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 10:29pm
|
Jim, you are correct. We have a wartime B on the farm. Has extended fenders and tall air stack. Also has, heavy thick cast rear wheels, with the 4 petal cut out design compared to 2 I think. ------------- Galatians 5:22-24 "I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!" |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 10:51pm
| AlbertaPhil I hope the fella u sold it to chimes in. That is really neat! |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 10:06am
|
The fellow I sold it to is a neighbor and friend. He had a large collection of Allis, but sold it all at auction 3 years ago. I'm not sure where the 'C' ended up, but tractors from his collection went all over. His 20-35 Allis went locally for $20,000 !! He won't be chiming in as he has nothing to do with computers!!! |
Posted By: sandman2234
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:20pm
|
War time tractors are the best!! David from jax ------------- A proud member of the Allis Express movement! Northeast Florida |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 9:00pm
| Dad got a W C in 43 .It was a 42.Had to be on waiting list .It was all steel no starter or lights ,did have belt pulley.It had casted diff.I have part of old sales book and i thnk it list three types of rear steel wheels. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 10:45pm
| We Murray would you be willing to share the info on the three types of steel wheels during that time? That's one question I have. |
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 9:00am
|
1. Standard spade lug 2. Tip-toe lug 3. Special offset spade lug. Styles 1 and 3 were available with/without extension rims. Sorry i don't have pictures to show the differences. ------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 9:07am
| Dakota Steve .Dug out my old W C sales book{in bad shape}.It is the styled tractor but must be pre war.Standard wheel 40x6 with twenty 5 in lugs . Skelton wheel 40x2 with 18 lugs 5 1/8 . Dish wheel 40x6 with 20 lugs 5 in .Front wheels 24x4 with 1 1/2x 11/2 angle skid bands. |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:12am
Here's a PDF of the brochure for the wartime B and C's: http://www.mediafire.com/file/vwod4jbk5yitcx9/wartimebc.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.mediafire.com/file/vwod4jbk5yitcx9/wartimebc.pdf ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: allis g
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:33am
here's my 41 war c
|
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 5:09pm
|
|
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 12:56am
| Thank you for the info. I have a wartime B and hope someday to find a wartime c to go with it. They would be a great pair together. |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 9:47am
| Some tractors were all steel before the war .U S declared war after peral harbor Dec 7 1941. |
Posted By: jbc1179
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2018 at 4:15pm
| Does anyone have or have a picture for a military Built Army B? I’ve come across the Army 1942 TM several times and would be interested in finding or building and military B... what yeas were they built? Features etc... the TM says they were pained OD with blue drab marking. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2018 at 7:06pm
| Great question. I'm interested too. |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2018 at 7:53pm
|
this is out of a WC brochure re-print I have http://s33.photobucket.com/user/Joecdeere/media/14.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2018 at 9:55pm
|
The military B manual I have isn't in color. http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/BMilitary.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/BMilitary.pdf Gerald J. |
Posted By: jbc1179
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2018 at 10:15pm
|
I’m assuming the Military M2 AC-B was just an OD painted civilian B. When you read the page 1 of TM 9-782 printed June 12, 1942 it refers to a change iwith figure 6. “Rescinded and the following substitutes therefor:” the figure diagram shows handbrakes on the ‘42 TM. Looks like the correction was of the December 30, 1942 TM. Paragraph 68, a. & c. (Page 54) reference painting the B lusterless olive-drab with blue-drab stenciling (no white because they can be photographed from the air). I have a ‘39 B-19111 that I was considering painting Olive drab, has hand and added foot brakes. Would be nice to see a military (styled) B around. GO Army- SFC, USA |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 9:11am
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Alberta Phil wrote:Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 4:41pm
|
I had a very good neighbor that told me that Henry Ford was on one of the U.S. war committees that controlled the manufacture and sale/distribution of farm equipment. Thus Ford manufactured more than other companies. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 5:51am
| I bought a "parts" wartime B several years ago. The valve cover and oil pan were cast iron on mine. I sold the (extended) fenders and tall air breather. I still have the four cutout wheel centers, valve cover and a bunch of other parts if anyone needs them. Does anyone have any idea what is a fair price for the centers and valve cover? |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 7:09am
| What does a tall air breather have to do with war time? More dust from the steel wheels so gets it up higher?? |