interesting read (oil zinc levels)
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Topic: interesting read (oil zinc levels)
Posted By: ac45dave
Subject: interesting read (oil zinc levels)
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 10:17am
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Iv'e been researching for oil to use in my old tractors so that I won't wipe out the cam shaft.Not to kick the bee hive, but does anyone have any suggestions.found this interesting article recently.whata yall think? [Editor’s Note: After the conversation following our introduction of the Hemmings Motor News Motor Oil last month, we turned to our tech guru, Jim O’Clair, for an explanation of the problems classic car owners have when choosing a modern motor oil.] There has been a lot of confusion in the last few years about the lowering of zinc and phosphorus levels in modern oils and how these lower levels relate to classic and performance engines using standard flat tappet lifters – that is, just about every car built before the Eighties. The concern involves the use of the new lower zinc/phosphorus-content ILSAC (multi-viscosity) oils, readily available on shelves at auto parts stores everywhere, and how compatible they are with these older engines. When anyone mentions zinc, they are actually referring to zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, a compound invented by Castrol for use in mineral-based oils or zinc di-thiophosphate (ZDTP), which is normally used in synthetic oils. Both have been used as an anti-wear ingredient in engine oil for many years. The zinc and phosphorus ingredients appear to be most effective when they are used together. ZDDP/ZDTP is one of many additives that are put into conventional motor oil to improve its lubrication qualities. Other ingredients such as boron and molybdenum are also added as lubricant enhancers. What was discovered through oil testing by several engine component manufacturers is that many older engines experience a short period of time during engine start-up where critical lubrication is insufficient between metal-to-metal lubrication points when using modern oils with reduced amounts of ZDDP/ZDTP. These same enhancers unfortunately have their downside: The phosphorus in this compound creates carbon buildup in engine bores and valvetrains, and both compounds can also lead to the early demise of catalytic converters. For this reason, the industry has been phasing out zinc and phosphorus levels since 1994, when the American Petroleum Institute’s SH designation became the industry standard, and levels have been further reduced in each subsequent API rating for engine oils. Manufacturers have tried adding more boron to offset the effects of the reduced zinc and phosphorus levels; however, the dry start protection does not measure up to those using more ZDDP/ZDTP. This has opened up a whole new market for zinc/phosphorus additives for oil and many camshaft and engine manufacturers now recommend that an additive be used in initial break-in and for regular use. All engine oils are rated for viscosity by the SAE as well as additive content by the API; passenger car ratings are two-letter designations that start with “S.” Heavy-duty or off-road equipment ratings start with “C.” The current API oil rating for passenger cars (gasoline engines) is SM and for trucks (diesel engines) CJ-4. Within these designations, you can determine how much zinc and how many other chemicals are present in the ILSAC (multi-viscosity) oils. These levels do not apply to straight-weight oils. If levels in the ILSAC oils are too high for the API specification, they cannot be rated for the current specification unless the container specifies “for racing or off-road use only” or “for use in classic cars.” This has caused oil companies to reduce levels of many additives, including zinc and phosphorus, to the required maximum in order to meet the current specification. Listed here are the current specifications for maximum amounts of additives to achieve the API ratings. P is phosphorus, Zn is zinc, and B is boron. Each figure is total parts per million of additives. These can also be roughly expressed in percentages by multiplying by .0001 (1301 PPM = .13 percent, 994 PPM = .099 percent) API P Zn B SJ 1301 1280 151 CI-4 1150 1374 83 SL 994 1182 133 CJ-4 819 1014 26 SM 770 939 127 Most engine and engine component manufacturers recommend zinc and phosphorus content of more than 1,200 PPM for break-in; in fact, many will void warranties on camshafts or crate engines if this minimum is not found in the oil sample you supply when returning broken parts for warranty. For this reason, many manufacturers produce their own zinc additives or oils with supplementary zinc included; GM even offers its own break-in oil with additional ZDDP. With respect to readily available oil, you can see from the chart that, if you can find oil still on the shelf rated SJ or SL, you can use them, but you are right on the cusp of voiding a warranty. New SM oils are just not going to cut it unless they have a zinc additive to boost the rating and one of the zinc supplements should be used with these oils or oils containing additional ZDDP additives are recommended. Some enthusiasts have recommended using commercially rated CI-4 15W40 diesel oil to meet the zinc and phosphorus additive requirement; however, CI-4 is an old specification and hard to locate. You can see that the CJ-4 specification that now supersedes it is well below acceptable levels. Our best recommendation is that you contact your oil supplier for exact additive contents. Many straight-weight oils do not have to meet the ILSAC API specifications to be sold as SM or CJ-4, so this may be an alternative. Classic car oils with elevated levels of ZDDP/ZDTP are also being offered by many suppliers. Regardless, if you are purchasing off-the-shelf oil for your classic car, ILSAC multi-viscosity oils rated SM or CJ-4 should have stated zinc and phosphorus additive supplements for use in older engines or an additional separate additive should be purchased and used with the new oil. As the new API rating SN becomes available in the next year, even more caution should be taken as the levels will be reduced even further. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Replies:
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 11:23am
| Great article. I subscribe to an old car magazine. For a long time they recommended Shell Rotella I think. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 1:40pm
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Thanks for posting about this Dave and I hope you don't catch the crap over like I did.lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 2:50pm
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I have used Rotella 30 in my tractors for the last 35 years. Label says for use in older turbo and non-turbo engines. ------------- WD45 Diesel, RC,CA,IB, B, G, 616, Early B-10, D-10, Terra Tiger, 95G spreader, SC blade |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 6:47pm
| They are more concerned about those motors turning 8 or 9000 rpm than a 1800 rpm tractor. Use any modern oil sae 30, 15w40, etc and you will be fine. Been using F/S 15w40 in my tractors, combines, trucks, cars, and pickups since I brought the first case of it west of the Mississippi river in early 1977. I have run it over a million miles in trucks, thousands of hours in farm tractors, and hundreds of thousands of miles in cars, pickups, and mini vans with no engine failure of any kind. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 7:33pm
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I have been using Shell Rotella T6 0W-40 in my B, because the diesel oil has more anti-wear additives and stuff in it (from what I could tell), the only other difference that I could tell from researching it was that the diesel oil didn't meet the cleanliness standards for modern gas engines, and this was the only big difference besides the better additives in the diesel oil. And so i figured that it didn't really matter for a 1939, and used it anyway. I am going to switch to AMSOIL Premium Protection though sometime, it is high-zinc specially made for older engines.
Just my opinion, I might be wrong though.  - Ben ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 7:51pm
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i've been using Kendall 15W-40 diesel grade oil in every engine I own for the last 20 years with no oil related issues I know of. A question does cranking the motor over some before letting it start reduce start up wear? |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2018 at 9:02pm
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Well guys,I guess this is were I'm at.I've been using penzoil staight 30 in the gas tractors and rotella 15w-40 in the diesels for many years.the reduced zinc levels has been a concern of mine for some time now.I have had lengthy discussions with a well respected member of this site that has his own tractor repair business and is well known and respected for his engine rebuilding talents.He is seeing camshaft failures in these old 1800 rpm engines that he wasn't seeing before, until the zinc levels in the latest oils were getting reduced.This concern isn't isolated to just old tractors either.I guess my main question is, what oils are out there available today with 1200 ppm or greater zinc level.I just don't want to round the cam lobes off in my old tractors especially my wd45 diesel. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 12:42am
| isn't Penzoil....recycled oil? |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 12:47am
------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
shameless dude wrote:Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 5:38am
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This has been brought up previously and I noted the changes coming as they were mandated to be introduced December 2016. Oil you are buying now, unless you can find old stock prior to the manufacturing changes (pretty much gone), is NOT the oil you used to have available. I ran this by a respected long time engine builder that I have used, before the roll-out of the government mandated changes and he advised anything he has built for years leaves his shop with a zinc additive installed or a small bottle on the pallet if the end-user wants to use his own oil for break-in. Touched base with him again spring 2017 and he advised folks were reporting issues if they did not add zinc and he recommended a couple ounces going forward regardless, new or old engines, every oil change . . . . .
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Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 5:42am
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Anyone who says "I have been using brand X oil for years and I've never had any problems..." , is completely missing the point of this article. The bottom line is zinc and phosphorous levels (ZDDP/ZDTP) have been lowered in almost all oils over time, due to the changing oil classifications or specifications. ac45dave, I've also read your later post that tested and rated 50 different oils, It was a very interesting read (as was this one). Since I have two engines on stands right now, that are getting new sleeves, pistons, rings and bearings (main, rod and cam), I am thinking either a different oil or a break in additive is in order for these engines. I am thinking out loud now, but we all know that a common cause of lowered oil pressure in the 201/226 engines is worn cam bearings. I am wondering if these lower zinc and phosphorous levels are a contributing factor to cam bearing wear?
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 6:29am
| WF - for break-in you'd be better off buying a motor oil that is designed for older engines. The concentration of zinc will be correct. It appears that too much is harmful. It also appears that cold startups are when much of the wear occurs. All the more reason to use a free-flowing multi-weight synthetic oil. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 7:30am
| I read an article in some farm magazine about 20-30 years ago where someone tested cold starts on an engine and found out 90% of all engine wear occured during cold starts. About the same time Consumer reports did a test on the frequency of changing oil. They used New York City taxi cab fleet as their test base. There conclusion was we spend too much money on oil changes as there was little difference between the cabs with different oil change intervals. Seems like it was a useless test as cabs have very few cold starts over their lifetime. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 8:59am
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I use Amsoil Synthetic. Check out their Z -Rod oil for example its for older cars.... read about it...it's specifically designed for flat tappet camshaft engines that may sit more than they are used daily. Highly zink fortified. The zink acts as a sacraficial metal so upon start up it leaves the thin layer of zink to act as a wear component up until pressure or splash lubrication takes place. You may have to copy that link to your Google box or browser search window but it's the technical service pdf that goes into great detail on the specific oil and what zink does to help out. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%2520MO-2007-08-08%2520Flat%2520Tappet.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj656_vjp7ZAhVO1GMKHS9qC88QFjABegQIEhAB&usg=AOvVaw1Mcbr8MNsBuoEypW2Qkdl6 
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Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 9:01am
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One more link.... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwil6oy0kJ7ZAhVU9mMKHUaUBM8QFjAAegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw0uWeUXd2WDOrkssknl7FeU" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwil6oy0kJ7ZAhVU9mMKHUaUBM8QFjAAegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw0uWeUXd2WDOrkssknl7FeU |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 9:13am
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Synthetic oil in the crank case and 100LL in the fuel tank mixed w just a small amount of two stroke oil to lubricate the exhaust valve's (due to 100ll being more of a dry fuel) and u are set. Protect the internals of the engine and protect the fuel tank, carb from gumming up and the entire fuel system. Note: This may be more useful to collectors that have tractors that sit. Unleaded gasoline is OK if u burn through it daily but other than that and it will make a person pretty frustrated when he has 20 tractors that won't run...the fuel tank looks awful inside and the carb is peeling like a sunburn inside with yellow varnish. In my opinion it is easily preventable. ...the shelf life on auto gas is 30 days. The shelf life on aviation 100ll is 7 years. That's a fact. People will say...but 100 LL is so much more expensive....well take your tanks and carbs off...go through all that and do the math. If u are using the machines every day use auto...if they sit....use 100ll. May be the best thing you ever have done and really helps with the stress of keeping the mechanical integrity of collector tractors intact. Just my 2cents... |
Posted By: orange-is-power
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 9:15am
| X2 what WF owner posted. Rotella 15w-40 is not the same oil it was a couple years ago, much less 30 years ago. Looks like all commonly available oils have had zinc properties lowered. We've started adding a few ounces of the Lucas zddp additive in conventional 10w-30 at oil changes for gas tractors. |
Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 10:59am
| Very interesting article. I think what is missed in all the discussions here is that clean oil is as much the solution to engine longevity as treating the engine with care. Change your oil frequently, and let your engine warm up and cool down properly, and it will treat you well. Abuse it, run oil too long between changes, etc and it will come back to haunt you. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 11:53am
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A local mechanic (with a very good reputation) once told me not to use synthetic oil in a new or rebuilt engine until the engine was well "broke in". His reasoning was that the superior lubricating ability of synthetic oil would prevent things from properly seating. He told me (and it kind of makes sense) that all new parts wear most rapidly when new, until they get worn to fit. I'm thinking I might use a straight weight oil for break in, then switch to a multi-viscosity oil after the engine has some hours on it.
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Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 12:26pm
| WF. I would agree with that....in the Aviation world on recip engines we use a non detergent 100W mineral oil for the first 25 hours and then switch back to a detergent multi grade oil after that....I think of it as the engine is sort of finishing the machining process....the biggest part is your seat between the rings and cylinder walls. U don't want a lot of lubricity there or u won't get a good seat. If u were to use a straight grade or synthetic oil off the bat u may get excessive blow by on a new OH. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 1:25pm
| Consider that adding zinc to your break-in oil will, in theory, prevent metal to metal contact. This in itself would hinder the break in. You could always pour Bon Ami down the carb, like GM had the dealer do with the first Chevy 265 engines. :) |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 1:31pm
I agree with DougS on the zink. 
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:02pm
I've heard of that being done.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:09pm
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Ford Explorer/Edge 3.5, 2.0 NA and Eco Boost, 2.3 Eco Boost, and 2.5 are all flat tappet cams. Nothing wrong with modern oil on a stock flat tappet cam. An aftermarket high performance grind, absolutely add the ZDDP to the oil. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 3:26pm
| I think Lucas or even STP will leave a more protective film on the cams etc. They don't drip dry as much or as quickly as the oil without them. Some may believe they create drag on the engine. I've put a tac. in them before the additive, car in neutral, and in gear, engine cold and hot, checked the RPM both cold and hot. There wasn't a nickels worth of difference in the RPM. Checked the gas mileage, no change. Then I tried Slick 50 with the same detail. Had to slow the idle speed down 300 PRM if you can believe that much. This was a 400 CID carb. engine in a full size FW. I would have been much better off getting a six pack and set down under a shade tree. Now I do believe in the additives for cold start ups and long hard hot days. I also think that any engine that has cam in head is a good candidate for the stabilizer. |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 8:12pm
------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 8:18pm
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Ac45dave. You said it. I have stuck my nose in airplane wings w 100ll in them that have sat a few years...still smelled fresh..unleaded would of smelled like stinky old stuff and most likely could of caused a lot of expense to the fuel system to get it up and going. I'm a believer in it. Makes sense to most anything for storage or minimal use. My last tank of gas in the lawn mower is that mix dirt bikes Etc |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 8:24pm
the manufacturing of the modern day flat tappet engines are far from what was used in the fifties.I would think the lube requirements would differ greatly also. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 5:41am
If, in fact, Ford is using flat tappets, they are shooting themselves in the foot as far as engine economy is concerned. You can do so much more with roller cams ar far as opening the valves more quickly. There is less friction too. In this day and age when they use 0W-20 oil and things like cycling the alternator for economy, I'd wonder why they would use flat tappets. If they are using flat tappets they've apparently hardened the cam enough to where enhanced motor oil isn't necessary. You won't find any auto manufacturer recommending oil with zinc if the vehicle, diesel or otherwise, is equipped with a catalytic converter. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:10am
x2, I have read somewhere that one cold start (cold cold, like cold enough to need an oil pan heater) in a car = 500 miles of wear (I forget now if it was 500 or 5000, but I think it was 500, 5000 seems like it is a bit high...) ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:24am
| Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil contains increased zinc. |
Posted By: sason
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:30am
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we ran this in our pulling tractors. https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus" rel="nofollow - https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus ------------- 180 with a turbo and 460 loader. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 8:38am
| I think your 5000 figure is right. That article I read the wear was more than 90% I think it was 97 or 99% but I said 90% to be conservative. Seems like if you had a good engine and never shut it off except to change the oil, it would run forever or close to it. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 8:58am
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I think the most important part to this is as collectors our tractors sit more than they run....through the changing temperatures of the season's and just time itself the oil starts to run off of the steel parts inside, the next time we start the engine it runs without sufficient lubrication on the surfaces for a period of time due to the oil being cold and having a thicker viscosity or maybe due to the older lubricating system and that it's just not there yet. The cam lobes and followers can start to develop small amounts of corrosion that runs into Spalling on the followers and surface delamination on the tips of the cam lobes....this is where the zink kicks in to protect this all. I agree with the above responses if we wouldn't be using advanced exhaust systems with O2 sensors and electronics we would still be using oils that are more zink fortified. Another topic is starting....people say well I just start it for a few minutes a couple times a year so I know I'm good.....Well, this may be causing more harm than good. As the engine starts to warm up condensation is made due to temperature differentials, this could be worse on a cooler day for example....unless you get the engine to full operating temp to completely burn off any condensation that has been introduced into the crankcase u may be shutting the engine down with small amounts of moisture inside that will induce rust more than if you'd of left it alone until the next time you were going to run it for a longer period of time. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:13am
Here are a couple pics I took of cam follower Spalling. This engine sat without running more than it ran but was used every year.  
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Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:26am
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x3 steve on your last two posts!! this was the point of my two threads on this subject.just trying to save us all some grief down the road. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:33am
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AC45Dave Knowledge means power....just like the old Allis manuals....ha! Throw it out there and people can sort through what they feel could help them. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:35am
The more I think about it the more I think it is, because I remember it being kinda shocking how many miles worth of wear it was.... DakotaSteve.... I agree completely on the condensation issue, the amount on the outside of my engine I assume is sorta close to the inside, and that is a LOT of water getting into my oil.  TO combat this I always run it till it is hot, (like you suggested....) and also change the oil in the spring to get the watery stuff out. My 0.02....- Ben ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:47am
Which is why thickW-Thicker is not the best oil to use. Use an oil that flows freely in the coldest weather, yet maintains adequate film strength when hot. If your tractor manufacturer recommended SAE 10 for winter use in your area, don't use 15W-40. |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 11:00am
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I agree on viscosity....another benefit of the synthetics....they have a much better flow rate at a given temp than most petroleum based oils, therefore they are going to get to where they need to be faster. For example...I use a 0W-40 weight in my Honda Foreman. I use it for ice fishing in the winter as well....when it's -20 on the ice and I start up..it's flowing like a 0 weight, when it's 90 in the summer it's flowing like a 40 weight. You wouldn't do that with petroleum based oils. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 11:25am
| seen a post about bon ami that is for seating rings not for ruining a flat tappat cam |
Posted By: HoughMade
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 11:52am
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I've used Rotella 15W40 in both my old motorcycle and old tractors. So far, so good. these are opposite ends of the RPM scale- My '70s Yamaha redlined at over 9,000 rpm and the tractors are under 2,000. Has worked fine in both. I switch to 10W30 in the winter (for the tractor, motorcycle hibernates), but it's still Rotella. I see no reason to buy anything more exotic or expensive.
------------- 1951 B |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 1:04pm
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Ford in fact is still using flat tappets in 4 and some 6 cylinder engines. Just did a water pump on a 3.5L Explorer. Driven by the timing chain so the front cover has to come off along with the cam covers. Cadillac North Star is also flat tappet. The ZDDP and zinc may have been reduced in modern oil, but the friction modifier package has been changed too. Take another look Steve. That left pic is rust pits without question, the right one the lifter stopped spinning. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: DakotaSteve
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 1:14pm
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Brian, yes I agree. I personally feel that the zink in the oil helps prevent things like "Rust". Engines that sit more than they are ran can use anything that's in their favor to help their longevity. Oils have been discussed and discussed for many years....I'm sure that won't change. I think as long as the info is out there folks can pic and choose what they believe in and what suits them.
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2018 at 3:23pm
Now the question, what is Mogas? Just a little better quality of old car gas or without alcohol in it? Will it store better? Thinking of putting something more stable into my infrequently started gas powered toys. Thanks ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2018 at 3:41pm
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JC you are using sideways math there. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2018 at 3:49pm
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JC you are right I am wrong, I looked at the numbers sideways. Sorry guy. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |