D17 Issues
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=147121
Printed Date: 17 Sep 2025 at 10:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D17 Issues
Posted By: Bingo8
Subject: D17 Issues
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 9:41am
| I currently have my grandparents original '58 D17 at a restoration shop to be brought back to life. Got a text yesterday saying he rebuilt the carb and got fire but still won't start. Thinks it has a couple stuck valves and thinks clutch is stuck also. He gave me list of parts to basically rebuild engine and clutch and it is around $1,000. I told him to go ahead and do it as it has always been in my family and I had the tractor given to me since I said I would have it restored. Guess my question is how do I know even after rebuild it is going to run and run right and is it worth the money to do? Obviously to me it is and that is all that matters, just looking for opinions. Oh its a gasser. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 9:58am
You say he rebuilt the carb, so yeah, it's a gasser!   Sorry. Seriously, regarding how do you know it's going to run right? Well, you say you have it at a "restoration shop". What's their reputation, experience with Allis tractors, knowledge level? Do you doubt them, don't trust them, think they're just throwing parts at it until it runs? We don't know anymore than you do unless I'm reading you wrong. Sometimes you just have to choose up sides and go, if you have a bad feeling or aren't satisfied with the work, you have to go through the pain of changing that direction, and that can mean many things. Same with the "worth it" question. The tractor has sentimental value, therefore, if it's worth it to you, it's worth it, most of us here would agree to that!
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 10:36am
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Rebuilding the clutch and engine for $1000 is VERY cheap. As mentioned I dont know if you know these folks or not? But I would have them give you a purchased parts list for all parts and then their labor hours separate. These can be a little more pricey if done right. Just don't want you to get ripped off. Sounds more like a valve job and a new clutch. Complete engine rebuild might be $2000 and up. Check with Don(MO). Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Acdiesel
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 10:47am
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these guys are right on!! I would also stop in the shop as they tare it down and see what there doing. did the shop give you any other info why they want to rebuild it? like low compression, or oily spark plugs? ------------- D19 Diesel,D17 Diesel SER.3 2-D14, 2-D15 SER.II WF/NF D15 SER.2 DIESEL D12 SER.I, D10 Ser.II 2-720'S D21 Ser. II Gmc,caterpillar I'm a pharmacist (farm assist) with a PHD (post hole digger) |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 11:12am
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Rebuilding can meet a lot of different things. He could just be pulling the head and replacing valves or doing a full out of frame overhaul and grinding the crank, machining the head, and replacing sleeves, pistons, and bearing. The part list alone for a full rebuild is a minimum of $600. You'll know by looking at the part list. I would think check for a stuck valve would be easy. Remove the valve cover and see if they're moving.
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Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 11:36am
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Agree with everything above. An engine rebuild for $1,000 is very cheap, I would expect to spend far more that that if I took the engine out and took it to the rebuilder. The big question is what is the guy's reputation and do you trust him? As to being worth the expense - you will very likely have more invested that you can get out of the sale of the tractor but the sentimental value is worth far more to you. ------------- Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God. |
Posted By: Stan R
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 12:20pm
| why spend money on an engine rebuild without checking the timing, valve clearance, ignition system, compression, etc,etc, etc.... FIRST? |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 3:01pm
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Plus one on that's cheap for a rebuild let alone doing a clutch too. To some people a rebuild is new rings, bearings, and grind the valves. To me and probably most of us here an overhaul is remove the engine and completely disassemble then hot tank the block and head. Reassemble with new sleeves and pistons, new valves with guides and springs, and anything else showing wear like the governor weights or cam and lifters. Find out now so you get what you really need, not just a "patch it back together" job that down the road you're scraping up your new paint because something was left that shouldn't have been. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 3:52pm
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I have been sitting here reading this post and that parts number is way to low, plus I'd handle the customer way different with little things like a phone call (not just a veg text) after I have made the right tests so I know what I'm talking about first. Now this is just me talking but if you go look at the engine with the valve cover off and ask for the list of checks he did and then ask for compression test as you are standing there and if you are not up on engines ask questions before you just say fit it up right. You are welcome to list what he had to say here and get some feedback. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 8:40pm
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No start with a rebuilt carb and fire does NOT mean the engine needs rebuilding! That place sounds pretty shady to me! ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 9:11pm
| Is it a place or is it a shade tree mechanic? It sounds like the plug wires are incorrectly installed. It could also be the timing or any number of other ignition problems. If you're truly going to overhaul it plan on spending twice what he proposes and have it done right. As others have said, you don't even know if it needs an overhaul. |
Posted By: Bingo8
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 9:38pm
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Not questioning the guys rep. He has a full time restoration shop and has done this for 30 years. Has had many tractors in magazines and has a great reputation. I guess my question was misleading. I don't know a lot about the engine so is it pretty easy to bring them back to life? Here is list of what is being done: Clutch kit,valve train kit,gasket kit,rebuilding head,rings and rod bearings. Parts are little over $1,000. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 9:44pm
| I never just re-ring one of those engines. They always get a new "motor kit" which is NEW pistons, sleeves and piston rings. When you get done, it will never use any oil or smoke blue out the exhaust. Re-ring might still smoke blue. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 7:29am
| Phones are nice after you've decided what you're going to do. That needs to be done face to face. Go see the man and take along a friend who understands something about mechanical things. Make sure he knows how to keep his mouth shut, but just observe mostly. Write down as many questions as you can think of and ask them. What about labor costs? There is a place out of Australia that can save a bunch of money on cylinder kits, cranks etc. that he may be getting parts from, and they seem to be OK. I guess what most of us feel like, is that is awfully cheap for parts. He may be buying parts real cheap somewhere and passing the savings on to you. I hope it works out, somebody needs a break. But you've come to the right place. There's a lot of old guys on here who have learned how to save a buck and still get a good job. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 9:29am
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Doc beat me to it. If the pistons and sleeves are going to be reused, at least the sleeves should be pulled and then put back with new o rings. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:20pm
| I agree with the good doctor (and Brian) about replacing the sleeves and pistons. I would much rather invest another $400 or $500 while I'm at it and know that everything is new. |
Posted By: Tom6070
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:58pm
| Hmm, 30 years experience and has his work in magazines? Frankly I think the guy deserves more credit than he's getting here. Pretty hard to evaluate what an engine needs without ever seeing it. |
Posted By: Bingo8
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 1:38pm
| I agree.... |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 9:33pm
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Where in Iowa are you, Bingo? My Series 1 had days like that. There's about a dozen things that would cause an engine to fire but not start. Carb rebuild for an engine that's been sitting for a long time is a $30.00 no-brainer... but rebuild engine and clutch? No. I've had an overheated spring on the ignition points do that... or a bad condenser... or a sticky valve. Matter of fact... my neighbor's Oliver 88 (Waukesha inline six) was that way about four weeks ago. $121.00 for a Pertronix ignition kit solved it. I would not be the least bit surprised to lift the lid off the top end and find that a valve or two isn't opening and closing all the way. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the exhaust manifold gaskets, especially around cylinder #1, were totally gone. Wouldn't be surprised to find a crack in the intake manifold right where it mates to the exhaust manifold (heat transfer from one to the other promotes better combustion, until it cracks there). I wouldn't be suprised to find the muffler plugged full of debris... or the clutch housing with a mouse-nest in it. If it were mine, I'd drain the coolant, pull the hoods, intake/exhaust manifold, lift off the head and wire-brush the combustion chambers clean, then remove each valve, chuck it in a cordless drill, and visit the wire wheel for a few seconds to clean off the crap off the heads and stems, then scrub out the ports, blow all the debris away, drop the valves back in with some lapping compound and spin 'em with the lapping stick a few times... check the springs in a spring-pressure-tester, put it all back together, put in a new head gasket, refill the cooling system, then set the ignition timing (with new ignition kit), plane the manifold good and flat, and put new manifold gasket set on... then try it. I'd bet that you'd have a good runner... even IF it had lots of piston/cyl/ring wear. They're just that way. If this is what the guy is proposing for $1000, then that's not out of reach... but it ISN'T an engine rebuild. It's a top-end freshening and ignition update exercise. But before you go crazy, do this: Take a piece of wire, connect it to the IGN + terminal of the ignition coil. Connect the OTHER end to the BATTERY + terminal, and try to start it. IF the engine starts and runs, replace the IGNITION SWITCH. Don't mess with the clutch 'till after you have the engine running. Once it is, operate the clutch a bit. If mouse-droppings and pieces of nest come out, you found your clutch problem. I wouldn't be surprised for it to go another two decades before actually 'needing' a clutch... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Bingo8
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 5:33pm
| Davekamp I'm located in SW Iowa. Thanks for the info. |