Putting a tank heater on one ninety
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Topic: Putting a tank heater on one ninety
Posted By: darrel in ND
Subject: Putting a tank heater on one ninety
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 8:14am
| I want to put a tank type engine heater on my very early one ninety gasser with the 265 engine in it, and need a little advice. I know from experience and looking at the directions, that I need to feed the bottom inlet port of the tank heater from the lowest point of the water jacket. Best option I can find for that, is a plug behind the carb appears to go into the water jacket; hopefully not an oil gallery. It is about a 3/8 or half inch pipe thread plug, so that is why I think it's a water plug. Most oil plugs are smaller. Assuming that plug does get me the source for the bottom port, where do I return the to out of the top port? I put a heater in the cab, with the help of a shop in town several years ago. One line to the heater is tapped in by the thermostat housing, and the other line by the water pump. If I remember right, one of them two ports, we had to drill and tap in, but that's somewhat irrelevant. Question is, can I just tee into one of these heater lines. It would be nice if the tank heater circulated through the heater in the cab, but obviously the most significant factor is that it warms the block up. Thanks, Darrel |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 8:46am
| I used to drill and tap a hole in the side of the thermostat housing for the hot water to go back into the cylinder head, so try and use a tee on your heater hose connection? Don't know if the hot water will go to the cab instead of the cylinder head ? If there is a hot water flow valve between the engine and cab (on either hose) closing it would insure hot water goes into the cylinder head. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 9:57am
|
Thanks Dr. Darrel |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 5:38am
| Why not put a freeze plug block heater on it works much better than a tank heater the freeze plugs are easy to get to there one the right side of the block just under the manifold. That's what my 190 has it works great. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 5:45am
I was going to do this on my Diesel but there is no Bolt holes on mine. This was added on later series motors? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Dakota Dave wrote:Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 6:57am
| Bolts on a freeze plug? I'm not familiar with doing it that way. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 7:46am
The rear port has 2 bolt holes to retain the heater in the freeze plug location like this one shows. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 7:57am
| I don't remember for sure, but I think that change in the block casting didn't occur until about 1972 ?? with the 200 tractor. Older 190/190XT and 180's were not like that. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 8:09am
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Does the Freeze plug in's have a way to retain the device in the hole without bolts? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 9:29am
| Yes they have a toggle bolt. You put the cross piece throught the hole and tighten it just like a Molly lock in a piece of sheet rock. After you punch out the freeze plug clean the hole lube the O-ring on the block heater stick the toggle in the hole and tighten it in place. When you get a car with a cold weather kit that's how the factory installers them. A 250w freeze plug heater will heat an engine up about the same as a 1200w tank heater. Since all the heat goes right to block. They almost never go bad and usually if they do you just change the cord. They only way to kill one is plug it in with no water. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 9:44am
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I put one on Dad's '65 gas XT but I don't remember much about it other than I think it bolted in like the pic above.... I think. It was about 20 years ago or more. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 10:08am
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That sounds easy enough. Too bad I have no electric near the shed! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 10:12am
|
What size is the hole? 1.25" seems to be common? $44 is pretty cheap http://www.griggslawnandtractor.net/kats-block-heater-fits-many-models-1-1-4-inch-diameter?gclid=CjwKCAiApo3SBRA4EiwAty8i-pzeiWS-Vy41kRuTw9rH8OvYB-Ah5TvCSCC7c0sh5x0wgROLx1pt5BoCgREQAvD_BwE" rel="nofollow - http://www.griggslawnandtractor.net/kats-block-heater-fits-many-models-1-1-4-inch-diameter?gclid=CjwKCAiApo3SBRA4EiwAty8i-pzeiWS-Vy41kRuTw9rH8OvYB-Ah5TvCSCC7c0sh5x0wgROLx1pt5BoCgREQAvD_BwE
------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 11:24am
| At the farm when we've left the MAC out in the field and it's been real cold we have one of those little harbor freight 1000 watt generators just start it plug the block heater in and go back to what we were doing. Comeback in two hours and it starts right up. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 1:05pm
| Odd that the whole block heater thing came up now, because I just got home from NAPA with a block heater for it that will bolt in to the hole just like in the picture. Main reason that I was initially thinking about the tank heater was because I had a brand new one on hand from a box of auction sale stuff. Then I come home and read my exact train of thought. LOL. Darrel |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 8:26am
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I was about ready to install the kats circulating tank heater and then I saw this post. I have a 68 190xt and do not have the two bolt port. I tried to find the freeze plug and I don't see it? Since Dakota Dave seems to have solved this problem with a similar 190xt, am curious where he installed his heater. Also, what method was used to remove his freeze plug. I have installed the kats heater in another tractor with good results but purchased the optional T they sell that goes in the upper radiator hose to make it work correctly. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 11:54am
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Frost plug heater is the way to go faster heat time and with less wattage. 600 watts if your just plugging in for an hour, 400 watt with thermostate if you plan on leaving it plugged in longer periods of time. and then put insulation around the engine to block the cold off. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Frost-Plug-Heater-1-1-4-600-Watt-120V-Massey-Ferguson-265-175-Allis-Chalmers-/132138665603?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Frost-Plug-Heater-1-1-4-600-Watt-120V-Massey-Ferguson-265-175-Allis-Chalmers-/132138665603?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 Can't say this one fits but contact seller and see if the 180/190 are listed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATS-K4CR-400W-120V-FROST-PLUG-ENGINE-HEATER-FREE-1ST-CLASS-AGCO-ALLIS-tractor/332477148387?hash=item4d692eace3:g:sFoAAOxykMpTIjZe:sc:USPSFirstClass!54840!US!-1&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATS-K4CR-400W-120V-FROST-PLUG-ENGINE-HEATER-FREE-1ST-CLASS-AGCO-ALLIS-tractor/332477148387?hash=item4d692eace3:g:sFoAAOxykMpTIjZe:sc:USPSFirstClass!54840!US!-1&vxp=mtr Removing frost plug is punching the center and then twist it out. Seems the scources say the frost plug is 1 1/4 inch hole. I installed a tank heater on 190 and I put the tank heater below the drain plug and then ran a hose down from the thermostat area to the inlet... otherwise when the heater was entering at the thermostat, it would open it and heat the radiator, and the thermostat was good... It did not do that on the 190XTD. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 1:08pm
|
I buy into the value of the frost plug but I have looked at my engine and cannot find a traditional frost plug to take out! I certainly don't find one that is 1 1/4 inches. This tractor does have a cab and it did have a cab heater and it currently has a 90 degree elbow coming out of the block connected to a capped hose but it isn't 1 1/4 inches. The location of where the frost plug should be and/or a picture would be great, if someone could do that. Thanks. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: Tim NH
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 2:27pm
This frost plug is on my 1976 7000. Just above fuel injection pump. ------------- 1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 2:46pm
My 180 is a Diesel but the heater fits into a bolted boss on the right side. Cord is hanging from it.
|
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 5:30pm
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The XT’s that I have seen have the heater in the rear freeze plug on the right side. So far my XT is starting well below 30 degrees with the manifold heater but agree block heater would be much easier on the ole gal. Ed’s pump rebuild resolved a lot of issues including the hard starting. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 6:04pm
|
Charlie, just so's you know, a perfection 500 kerosene heater just fits under the oil pan of most D series tractors... You can always slide a block under the heater, if the tractor in question is taller than a D series, and it don't use no lectric, and ya don't have to plumb it inta the tractor! And, wif some high heat chevy orange engine enamel, along wif the triangular emblem, you can make it almost look like an AC original! http://www.milesstair.com/Perfection/Perfection_730.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.milesstair.com/Perfection/Perfection_730.jpg
 |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 9:17pm
|
Really appreciate the pictures and these helped me locate the freeze plug. The reason why I couldn't see it is because the fuel lines and the fuel lines holder was blocking my view of it. Bad news is this means I have to bend these fuel lines and/or remove them to extract the plug and to make room for the frost plug electrical connection. All six of the lines are in the way too. Does everyone that has an early 190xt have this same problem? Are my fuel lines run differently than other 190xts? Regardless this is going to be a bigger job than I wanted which may send me back to the circulating tank heater. I noticed that Dr. Allis indicated that I could tap into that heater hose I have coming out of the block, particularly since I don't use the cab heater anyway. The 7000 picture above does not show the fuel lines in front of the freeze plug and it would be easy to install it if I had that view. Thanks to all who replied. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 11:17pm
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[IMG]uploads/16553/190frostplug_2017-12-28_23-08-59.jpg[/IMG] here is a picture of the lines in the way. You can see the corner of the frost plug once I loosened fuel line holder. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: Tim NH
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 4:56am
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The reason you can see the frost plug easily on my 7000. Is the fuel pump has been taken out to send to Ed. I'm going to put a heater in that location this spring. Tim ------------- 1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207 |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 5:13am
I like it! Sort of like what the tankers had to do in WWII when they lit a fire under the tank to warm it up! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:20am
on a 190xt you have to use the rear hole because cant use that boss as its where the oil cooler bolts on. only late tractors have the two holes tapped there so like my 67 xt you have to use the automotive style with the pull bolt in the center. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:31am
 I screwed up and used Microsoft Edge as browser and it didn't load picture correctly. Here it is with Firefox. You can see the rounded corner of the freeze plug hiding behind the fuel lines and the fuel line holder. The clearance I have is less than 1/2 inch on the back side between the engine and the fuel line holder too. So, I think I will wait until spring to clean up the engine and paint it, move the fuel lines around a little, so that I can get a frost plug in there as well. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:35am
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Use the one at the rear next to the starter ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:43am
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I just noticed the above post about using the rear hole while I was writing my last post. I didn't notice another frost plug on the right side of the engine but it sounds like there is another one next to the starter so that is good. I will check it out tonight. Thanks for the clarifications. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 9:53am
 Just wanted to report back that I did find the rear frost plug. You can see the top half of plug in the picture. It is nearly at the end of the engine above the starter, but there is an oil line and other things in the way. I suppose a punch could be used without deinstalling the oil line and hydraulic lines to remove the plug. There isn't a lot of room between the engine block and that oil line for the heater though. The pig tail cord may be a challenge but since others have done it, it must be possible. For now I am going to install the circulating tank heater and come back to this problem in the spring when I take the stack and hood off. Allis sure made it a lot easier in the later models to install the engine heaters versus this earlier model. Thanks for all of the help to those that responded. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 1:48pm
   I opted to go this route for a heater on my one ninety gasser. It's soft plug second from rear, and had the two bolt holes to fasten it in. Diameter of the soft plug is irrelevant, because it just seals with a gasket against the flat surface on the block. It's been working good. Darrel |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 1:56pm
| To explain the peculiar looking bolt at the top, it's custom made by me. The intake manifold is in the way to where a bolt won't go in. We had to cut off about an inch long threaded part of a bolt and cut the screwdriver slot into it. We then started the nut onto the homemade bolt, then threaded the stud into the threaded hole in the block. After getting the stud bolt threaded into the block by about five threads, we tightened the nut up with a wrench. darrel |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 2:05pm
| good ole farmer ingenuity! |