D14 Will not Start
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=145529
Printed Date: 23 Sep 2025 at 3:16pm
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Topic: D14 Will not Start
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Subject: D14 Will not Start
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 12:32pm
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Had the D14 running last month. Started right up. Ran good and smooth. Noticed two weeks ago it’s is not starting. Ran battery dead trying. Charged it back up. Tried today, still will not start. I put gas in the tank. Gas does run out drain in the carb. So I know it has gas to carb I cleaned the points in the rotor next to condenser. I do get spark when turning over. But it is yellow. Doesn’t look strong. I do have spark at all plugs when I connect bulb tester. (Spark plug Wire to tester, tester wire to plug.) Put gas right in all four cylinders still not even an attempt to spark. Should I replace distributor, condenser, and points? I cleaned points and gapped them. Could condenser be bad? Pretty sure I need a distributor cap, mine is not in the best of shape. I noticed the battery smoking after cranking the engine over for a while. Starter is. Not warm but cable terminals on the battery are so hot, that I can’t touch. This is a 12 volt system. As always, Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: den/southern illinoi
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 1:21pm
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It is possible that you are using most of the battery to run the starter and not enough power let to cause a spark. Have had it happen. Can you steal a "good" battery from something else to try it and see what happens? Den ------------- Own 4 wheel 20, 2-5015, 5020 and associated equipment and 2 electric forklifts. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 1:48pm
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Try removing the air filter oil bath. Breather might be plugged. Gary |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 2:59pm
| Took air filter and breather off, still won’t start |
Posted By: Larry in NC
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 3:11pm
| I would replace the spark plugs. You should be getting a bright spark. If it does not start, then spray starting fluid into the carburetor air intake. If it runs on the starting fluid, the problem will be in the carburetor. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 3:30pm
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OK two MAJOR issues.. #1.. battery cables so hot can't touch. Buy NEW cables !! Without looking I can see they are old and corroded, can't pass enough electron through anymore. Clean the battery posts, recharge for 2 days, clean the solenoid studs as well. ANY resistance is not nice. #2 .. yellow spark... should be a healthy blue. Pull all 4 plugs, lay on top and 'start' the tractor. each plug should be blue. Use fine sandpaper( matchbook striker fine) and clean the points. See if blue spark returns, if not..maybe replace the ballast resistor. The deal here is.. what coil do you have ? could be 6 volt unit, a 12 volt or a 12 volt 'no resistor needed' unit. now since it was running recently .. I suspect corroded points ( yellow spark) but could also have a bad dist cap.. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 3:30pm
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are the plugs getting wet? if not then it's not getting gas. I trace the spark back. if the spark ain't good at the plugs, I then look at the spark at the plug wires, then back at the coil. when the d17 wouldn't start, I traced the spark back and didn't have any at the cap. the cap was completly corroded, when I took the coil wire out the brass piece from the end of the coil wire stayed in the cap it was so corroded. what ever you don't run out and start replacing a bunch of parts. one thing at a time. I've seen folks replace plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points, etc. then have no spark. then have to try and figure out what part they got was bad.
------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 3:50pm
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Yellow spark says bad condenser or condenser not connected hot side or ground. Gerald J. |
Posted By: drobCA
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 4:17pm
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I'd listen to Gerald. a cheap and easy first try in any event. oh yeah... and replace any suspect wires/cables! you'll need to eventually anyway. ------------- 3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 5:08pm
| Battery is only 1year old, terminals are perfectly clean, wires have no corrosion. They are fairly new as well. I believe they are #2 wire. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 5:13pm
| All Wires are new as well. I went one under recommended size. If it was to be 12 I went 10 or 14 I went 13 etc. plugs are not wet. But I sprayed gas right into each cylinder and still did not have any spark. I do not think I have a resister. Not sure if could 6 or 12. Like I said it was running great. Now nothing |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 5:42pm
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You should never run the starter long enough to cause the results you are presenting. Crank for one minute should tell you it ain't gonna start. If it's real cold there you may have wet plugs that won't work. You need to take them out and dry them off. I used a cigarette lighter whenever I needed to do it. You can give it a shot of starting fluid to see if it will fire. If not then you have a spark problem. I'm thinking you may need a new coil. Is the coil a 12 volt coil? If not there should be a large resister connected in the 12 volt wire going to the coil. It's possible that may be breaking down. It could be the coil, condensor, cap, rotor, wires and or plugs. Points gap, and plug gap are also something to check. ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 5:46pm
| X2 on the coil or resistor, check polarity of ignition, too. Also check key switch for continuity, when you release the starter function... |
Posted By: drobCA
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 6:04pm
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I just went through the same frustration on an 8N. battery charged right up and put in immediately and poor results. when I metered the output, it was way below specs. so... even tho it looked good the battery was trashed. switched in a known good, never fully discharged batt and zoom! started right up. still... new coils are also cheap (like condensers) and well worth a shot IMHP.
------------- 3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 10:03pm
| Looking at a new coil. I see there is an internally resisted coil for about $20. And an hot coil (55000 volts for about $50. I’m assuming i need the internally resisted as I do not see a resister block on the tractor. Is this right? |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 10:18pm
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There are several ways to design a coil, the primary can be wound for 12 volts or wound for 6 volts or in extreme cases wound for 3 volts. The more turns for the greater voltage, the greater the inductance and the more critical dwell time is for high speed many cylinder engines. Not really a problem with a 4 or 6 cylinder tractor engine never turning much over 2400 RPM. A 6 volt coil can use an internal or external resistor on a 12 volt system. For some high speed engines years ago Dodge used 3 volt coil with a resistor for 6 or 12 volts. A 6 volt coil will work for a while on 12 volts without a resistor but will overheat. Often an overheated coil develops shorted turns and they really kill spark generation. Coil primary polarity is also critical, for negative ground the - terminal goes to the points and the + terminal goes to the ignition switch. For positive ground its the other way around, + to the points and - to the battery. The coil will produce some spark with the wrong polarity but spark is better with the proper primary polarity. I repeat, yellow spark is not so typical of a bad coil but of a bad condenser, a condenser with a much smaller capacitance that needed, like open or not connected. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 11:31pm
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If the Tractor is 12V, you need a coil that Ohms out at between 2.7-3.3 Ohms. A 3.0 Ohm coil will put you right in the middle. First thing I would do is change out the Battery, Batteries shouldn't smoke. When they do, there's a problem somewhere. Also, make sure your cables are in good shape and your Grounds are clean and tight. Before you condemn the coil, change out the Battery first and see if it comes to life. Just may be the Battery causing your troubles. Yellow spark is not good. You need a Whitish/Blue spark for good fire power. Change out the points and condenser after a new or different Battery is put in... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 4:46pm
| Wonder if you put in the battery in backwards? Have you left the key on for any extended time, and the tractor not running? Did you change the condenser? It's not uncommon to get a new bad one. By the way, if you left the key on it sometimes only takes 15-20 sec. to burn the points. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 5:33pm
| Put known good battery in, same problem. Ordered new distributor cap, distributor rebuild kit that includes rotor, condenser, points, and spark plugs. Also new coil with internal resistor and distributor dust cap. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 6:22pm
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Check the bakelite (plastic) insulator, that carries the ign through the dist wall, too. Common problem, is to have the pickup leg on the points ground out, at the stud. Also, check that the plastic insulator isn't cracked... Also check that the dist bushings for wobble wear. If you can force the points to close, by applying side pressure to the shaft, its time fer new bushings, in the dist...
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Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2017 at 4:53pm
So i got my new parts yesterday. Put new points (and gapped to .20), condensor, distributor cap, dust cap, and a new internal resisted coil. Still will not start. It has spark at the points and spark going to the plugs checked by tester (pictured below). Plugs get wet, so it is getting gas. While working I dropped my work light, and, in the dark found out what was causing the smoke mentioned in earlier posts. Earlier, I thought it was the battery smoking but it is not. When the light was off, I noticed a bolt that connects the gas tank support bracket to the side of the battery box glowing orange when I had the starter engaged. When I let the key off (starter not moving) no glow. Turned key to engage starter, bolt was glowing again. Being so close to the gas tank is a little scary. Hopefully the picture I took will show what I am talking about. The black wire shown is running from the battery to the starter (positive) In the picture it looks like it is touching the bolt that glows but it is not, it is a few inches away. The silver line on the bottom is the gas line. Orange metal on left of picture is the battery box. Orange metal on right of picture is the gas tank. The flat stock is the gas tank and battery support. Does it sound like a bad ground (causing the bolt to glow orange)? Could the voltage regulator be bad? **How do I start the tractor bypassing all wires, gauges, switches, and other crap? In other words, I want to start (and be able to shut off) tractor with just battery, starter, coil, and distributor. I figure if I can at least get it started without any extra stuff, I can then go back and trace wires and hopefully figure out what is wrong. As mentioned before, it was running great. Started easily every time. Took it outside a month ago or so, drove around a little, put it back in barn, shut gas valve off, let engine die, then shut key off. (I stop all my engines this way) Went to start it a week ago and it will not start. That's when I started the post.  |
Posted By: Dandan111
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2017 at 5:36pm
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So it's a positive ground system? Looks dangerous with things getting so hot. Be careful I know a guy that had a battery blow up. Pretty much blind. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2017 at 5:55pm
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you need 3 things to run a gas engine. 1) gas..plugs are wet so that's 1 down 2) spark..tester says yes... 2 down 3) timing..you need the spark at the correct time to go bang Any chance you've replaced the plug wires into the wrong holes ? Firing order is 1243, #1 being at front of the engine. This is where having taken even ONE picture is worth 1,000 cuss words ! I'd suggest, pulling all the plugs, rotate engine( vice grips on PTO shaft, engaged, work well for me) and find top dead center of #1 cylinder. Remove dist cap and see where the rotor point. THAT position is where #1 plug wire goes, rest go in CW from there 1-2-4-3. After that REMOVE VICEGRIPS ! (yeah I KNOW why....), try to start. It should fire up. Now I also KNOW that the gears that connect the dist shaft to the guv can get totally chewed due to lack of oil...and when(if) you pull the dist off you will need to 'retime' the engine though IF you take lots of pictures ,you may be able to put it back as it was. I'm hoping it was an oopsy moment and you just pulled the wire off, put them back on as 2-4-3-1 when they should be 1-2-4-3. my finger are crossed for you! Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2017 at 10:08pm
| It is a negative ground system |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 6:01am
| Plug wires are correct order. I will check timing. But I am still concerned about the glowing bolt. Has to be shorting out somewhere |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 6:28am
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Could the glowing bolt just be a sign of a bad ground? The wire is new from - side of battery to metal on top of the battery box. The battery box sit on the tractor and Gas tank support is attached to battery box at the bottom by two bolts. One of those bolts is the one heating up. To me, it’s acting like there is a kill switch. But there isnt. I say that because my wd has a kill switch and I have tried to start that a few times with the switch on. Wouldn’t start. Thought about it and then the light bulb went on, duh, shut the switch off. Then it started. But nothing like that in the d14. Unless something is shifting out so where. All wires were replaced after painting last summer. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 6:58am
| Nothing should be heating up anywhere. Take the bolt out and use a wire brush all around near where the hole is. The terminal on the cable may be oxidized to the point where you'll need to brush it down to the copper. I'd replace the bolt. You want bright shiny metal at all your connections, before you put the wire on them. Use a drill motor and round wire brush. Once a connection oxidizes it's very difficult to clean. This may be your problem. There would be a large voltage drop at this point. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:11am
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There's a NICE bolt hole on the left side of the block that I use for GROUND for the battery.Yes...not 'correct' but I've never had hot bolts ! Having all that currnet running through a bad connection will drop the voltage down to 'not enough' to give real sparks in the engine. I'd replace and rewire the ground wire. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:18am
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I think that is where I need to start. Cleaning that area and new bolt. Although it is clean. I replaced all wires when refurb. Bat terminals are shiny clean. No crud anywhere as I just restored a little more than a year ago. What a pain because to get to the bolt and clean it good, I’ll have to take hood and gas tank off. Of corse this couldn’t happen when it is summer. 5 degrees outside and about 15 in the barn makes the job even more miserable. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:22am
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I did notice yesterday while cranking, the starter world turn fine like it should for 5 seconds or so then just suddenly stop. Before this all happened, tractor would start with just 2-3 seconds of starter running. |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:23am
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Have you checked to see if the gas may be bad? I've had that several times. Somehow water kept leaking into my tank(s). After I fenced the place off, that mysteriously stopped.... Hmmmmm. You can also temporarily bypass the resistor to get a hotter spark, but I'm more apt to think it's the condensor. With the glowing bolt, that tells me you have a grounding issue, and a poor connection of any kind will draw your battery voltage down while cranking, as P=IV (electrical formula) says that as Voltage (V) goes down (poor connection), Current (I) has to go up in order to provide the same power (P)
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Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:25am
| Anyone know a safe way to start and shut off tractor using just battery, starter, coil and distributor? Skipping all the wires, gauges, and switches. I figure if it starts like this then I know there is a wiring problem. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 8:11am
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I use an alligator clip on the live wire from the battery to connect to the coil. To stop the engine, disconnect the alligator clip. Gary |
Posted By: Dennis(IA)
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 9:35am
| Sounds like a bad GROUND. I am not familiar with the D14 , but I would like to sèe the ground cable attached to a mounting bolt on the starter. |
Posted By: polarbear
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 10:54am
| all my d series are positive ground but having said that in my experience when certain bolts get hot it is diffinetly a ground problem |
Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 2:03pm
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Disconnect the ground cable from the Bat. Run a jumper cable from the bat Grd to another ground; then try starting. If this works, you need to tidy up the ground.
BTW; I once had a solid looking bat wire and was experiencing starting isssues. After lots of effort, finally discovered that the cable was corroded where it went into the terminal (not visible); replaced the cable and problem solved. ------------- What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers. Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2. With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 2:55pm
| Definetly a ground problem. Took negative side of battery and ran it to one of the four studs on the valve cover (just because it was therenand it was easy to do). Checked all spark plugs and had spark. Put plugs in, started up. Then quite after a minute as I had the gas tank off to get at the bolt that was causing the problem. Too cold now so maybe tomorrow I will get it out all back together. Anything wrong with leaving negative wire connected to valve cover stud permanently? The wire I have acted as if it wad made for that. Maybe that will get too hot though. |
Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 3:17pm
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All my D14s have the grd from the bat going to the bolt that holds the rear of the center tin (the one that the side covers go into) ------------- What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers. Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2. With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 4:41pm
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My D17 has the ground cable from the battery to the rear valve cover stud. Has been that way for years and no problem with it. I always thought connecting to the battery box or tray was too indirect a connection and left too many places for poor contact. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 6:05pm
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I'd rather it NOT be on a valve cover stud, thinking you don't want to 'reef down' the cover mushing the gasket, then oil leaks, and yeah..another job on the todo list. Left side of engine block, there's 2- 5/16 or 3/8 threaded holes. I use one of them. Clean out the hole(chase with new bolt), use bolt,lock washer,flat washer.... Mine's been there for 5 years... I use a 'Wallmart' combo battery (top and side posts) , use the side posts..made for a nicer instal and no sparkies. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 6:26pm
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the d17's ground is on the side of the block and uses the same bolt as the coil. the d14 is on the center part of the tin. ------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers |
Posted By: Herb(GA)
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 10:05am
| Secured to bottom rear side edge of battery case (on our D14) is a 6" x 12" x 3/64" sheet metal that extends approximately 3" above top of battery, with top 1" formed 90 degrees; this 1" flat area holds the "U- shaped" strap iron that holds the 5" wide backbone center piece of the hood. This 1" flat area also is threaded for the bolt that secures the ground; this threaded hole is first extruded enough to insure three full threads for the ground bolt. Our ground cable is less than 10" long. Herb(GA) |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 10:19am
| I don't like the idea of attaching the ground to sheet metal, regardless of if it was designed this way or not. As for side post wiring - only if you can find it with a nice fat cable. Walmart 12 volt cables won't cut it. Go to a truck repair shop if you must. Steve might be able to fashion up a set for you too. |
Posted By: HVFDFIREFIGHTER
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 12:08pm
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Merry Christmas everyone! 5 degrees out. Drained gas tank, cleaned sediment bowl, took carb apart and gave it a good cleaning. Put all back together and the D14 is purring like a kitten. Now I need to permantly fix the ground cable. Once again, thanks for all the help. This is a great website!!! Happy New Year! |